Issue 1CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Break Issue 2CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31Page 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50 Issue 3CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3HolidayPage 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31p 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50Page 51Page 52Page 53Page 54Page 55Page 56Page 57Page 58Page 59Page 60Page 61Page 62Page 63Page 64Page 65Page 66Page 67Page 68Page 69Page 70Page 71Page 72Page 73Page 74Page 75Page 76Page 77Page 78 Guest ArtTuesdayWednesdayFriday Issue 4CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31Page 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50Page 51Page 52 Issue 5CoverPage 1Page 2NewspaperPage 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31Page 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50Page 51Page 52Page 53Page 54Page 55Page 56Page 57Page 58Page 59Page 60HiatusPage 61Page 62Page 63Page 64Page 65Page 66Page 67Page 68Page 69Page 70Page 71Page 72Page 73Page 74Page 75Page 76Page 77Page 78Page 79Page 80Page 81Page 82Page 83Page 84Page 85Page 86Page 87Page 88Page 89Page 90Page 91Page 92Page 93Page 94Page 95Page 96Page 97Page 98Page 99Page 100Page 101Page 102Page 103Page 104Page 105Page 106Page 107Page 108Page 109Page 110Page 111Page 112Page 113Page 114Page 115Page 116Page 117Page 118Page 119Page 120Page 121Page 122Page 123Page 124Page 125Page 126Page 127Page 128Page 129Page 130Page 131Page 132Page 133Page 134Page 135Page 136Page 137Page 138Page 139Page 140Page 141Page 142Page 143Page 144Page 145Page 146Page 147Page 148Page 149Page 150Page 151Page 152Page 153Page 154Page 155Page 156Page 157Page 158Page 159Page 160Page 161Page 162Page 163Page 164Page 165Page 166Page 167 Issue 6CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31Page 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50Page 51Page 52Page 53Page 54Page 55Page 56Page 57Page 58Page 59Page 60Page 61Page 62Page 63Page 64Page 65Page 66Page 67Page 68Page 69Page 70Page 71Page 72Page 73Page 74Page 75Page 76Page 77Page 78Page 79Page 80Page 81Page 82Page 83Page 84Page 85Page 86Page 87Page 88Page 89Page 90Page 91Page 92Page 93Page 94Page 95Page 96Page 97Page 98Page 99Page 100Page 101Page 102Page 103Page 104Page 105Page 106Page 107Page 108Page 109Page 110Page 111Page 112Page 113Page 114Page 115Page 116Page 117Page 118Page 119Page 120Page 121Page 122Page 123Page 124Page 125Page 126Page 127Page 128Page 129Page 130Page 131Page 132Page 133Page 134Page 135Page 136Page 137Page 138Page 139Page 140Page 141Page 142Page 143Page 144Page 145 Bonus Content1234 Issue 7CoverPage 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27Page 28Page 29Page 30Page 31Page 32Page 33Page 34Page 35Page 36Page 37Page 38Page 39Page 40Page 41Page 42Page 43Page 44Page 45Page 46Page 47Page 48Page 49Page 50Page 51Page 52Page 53Page 54Page 55Page 56Page 57Page 58Page 59Page 60Page 61Page 62Page 63Page 64Page 65Page 66Page 67Page 68Page 69 In case you can’t remember where this memory is from, here’s a link to the archive page. Show Comments Darkoneko Hellsing rose tinted glasses, uh. Nathanaël François The bottom right corner of the memory is the bed. Why is it yellow when Anima points at it? Gotham Unbeknownst to all of us, she can jump super high and does it at the most pointless times. Eli Pomerantz it’s possible that it’s not a snapshot, but more like a gif or video – memory doesn’t tend to have snapshots or it could be the yellow isn’t the picture at all, but the “component” referenced as an infecting influence Elaine Lee Actually, memory is more like a bunch of snapshots. We fill in the details between the snapshots with our imaginations. Each time we call up a memory, we are changing it slightly, forgetting bits, or adding new bits to it. We may think we’re recalling something that happened, but we’re really assembling many memory-clips into a movie and writing a new script for it, each time we do so. The life you think you remember, for the most part never happened. Gotham Oh, that’s curious. Naturally everyone’s memory is the most fickle of things, but Alison did remember, as evidenced by right now. So every time they met since that scene happened, he had to confront his firsthand memory with his secondhand memories straight from Alison, which were different. Did he assume Alison was the one who remembered wrong? Even though he can peruse other minds better than his own and would have known if she was lying to herself? Or is he aware of the discrepancy but preferring this version of what didn’t happen that day instead of Alison’s? Also, his shirt was red? What?! This changes everything! Shjade Well, they haven’t spent much time together since that day, have they? They drove to the hospital, met up again post-hospital burnination, then…uh…the fight at the tower, I think? And then today, when he’s a wreck in her apartment? I don’t think he’s perusing every memory a person has every time he runs into them, so it’s possible he hasn’t “watched” her version of that memory since the event. Gotham As he said the first time they met, “my mindreading has a mind of its own”, and he can’t help it. It’s unclear how much it’s comprehensive and how long it takes but clearly Alison doesn’t have to have the memory on her mind for him to peek. Julia McGuire On the other hand, he clearly doesn’t register everything that he takes in, or that would break his brain. After watching loony tunes he says, “Why aren’t people thinking about these all the time?” I’m sure he’s read the minds of tons of people who’ve watched loony tunes, but he still doesn’t really know about them. I’d say that he has to actively search through his head for memories he wants. Stuff like secondhand memories from Alison are important to him (which is why so many of them ended up in the gallery), but he probably prioritizes his own memories of the time they spent together. Incendax I think you are right. There definitely seems to be a time component to his power. Fast enough to learn from multiple intelligent people while they sleep near him. But not fast enough to observe an entire life in anything resembling a reasonable time frame. palmvos I wonder if it isn’t time so much as activity. remember all the physicists sleeping in his office? they were there sleeping in order to allow him to ‘sift’ their memories and thoughts on time travel more easily. now it may have been a logistical simplification to have them sleeping rather than awake, but Patrick was seriously trying to become the worlds foremost expert on time travel. he needed time to ‘find’ much of what he is looking for. so his power has to be selective, and why he hadn’t encountered loony tunes before? a. he had an unusual parentage. and b. nobody around him actively thought about it around him. he probably has a through understanding of Dilbert by secondhand however. Giacomo Bandini He knows about them… Just not first hand Gotham It’s so weird to have two opposing factions, Anima’s and Menace’s, not be antithetical in values. You’d expect the looming dictator pushing forward propaganda posters with “Order” on it and pursuing his dissenting enemies with extreme prejudice to be quite fond of order and all the wonderful fascism implied. But Anima is too, just as much. She raved about the walls being put up, despises the corrupting Component and from the looks of things, cannot fucking stand that an memory be left in place for what it represents, no matter how imperfect. And I thought she was the one to like/like Alison, of all of Patrick’s personality aspects, but apparently not… I guess my question is is Anima actually Menace in a very large trench-coat R Lex Eaton Anyone else getting vibes like the old Doctor Who story, “Enemy of the World”? SomeGuy411 I’m starting to think the component is literally a marker for something native to patrick. The natural errors in memory from revisiting, or the colouration of his own perspective. If this is accurate, to try to stabilize himself he’s flushing all of HIMSELF out of his own mind Eric Meyer Yep. Either the native Patrick stuff, or else his emotional memories. StClair The protagonist/narrator in BLINDSIGHT is someone who, IIRC, has been made – via a combination of accidental brain damage and further training – as much of an emotionally-detached, impartial observer as a human can practically be. With the result that, when they actually do end up having an emotional response to something, they have no “place” to put it, and end up projecting it on one of the other members of the team. BMPDynamite That … that’s completely horrifying. Tylikcat They had a functional system, that worked, for a fairly long time. And then something happened – I’m guessing it’s started with Alison throwing Patrick’s lack of self-knowledge in his face*, and maybe escalated with an increase in sensitivity… but maybe it didn’t have to, because maybe he was already that sensitive, and he’s going to have to come up with some kind of system to manage it if he’s going to be functional. What’s weird to me is that Anima is focused on Menace… but Menace dismissed Anima, and is focused on Alison. It’s almost love triangle material, y’know? (Which kind of would go along with Anima’s anti-sentiment stance, if that’s what it is.) * which was a hell of a lot more traumatic than throwing the cup in his face. Yo, this is Patrick. Arkone Axon It could be that Menace is actually the part of Patrick that is… human, and decent. The part that wants to be a good person, to romance Alison, to have friends and be a part of humanity. Whereas Anima is the part that wants to be “coldly logical” and pragmatic and treat people as things to be used, and sees Alison as an unhealthy influence. In the Shadowrun tabletop game, virtual reality rules discuss how everything in the Matrix can be viewed differently. One useful program to have is a Reality Filter, which can change a node’s sculpting into a metaphor of the hacker’s choice. For instance, a hacker who is a huge fan of baseball might transform every node into a baseball field with herself as the pitcher striking out “batters” representing the programs being hacked. Or a dungeon setting where every program is a monster to be killed with weapons representing programs (a sword for the Attack program, a lockpick for Exploit, etc). Or making everything into a symphony and hacking by playing music. The point is that these metaphors might not be what they seem to be. Anima initially presented herself as an attractive female in a Tron-esque outfit… but who’s to say what’s behind the facade? And who’s to say that Menace isn’t the core of Patrick’s goodness hidden behind a mask by Anima’s control of the virtual narrative? Julia McGuire Menace doesn’t seem particularly warm and cuddly either. I think both of them are pretty sketchy. Anima seems pro-Alison (for now), but is opposed to Patrick being anything other than 100% rational. Menace hates Alison and is willing to level the city to get at her, in retaliation for some sort of change she evoked in Patrick’s mind. Out of all the Patricks we’ve met so far, the nicest one is the Record-Keeper, who is adorably preoccupied with showing off how cool his memories are. And we’ve still got two Patricks to go. I have a feeling that none of the Patricks are going to be completely right in how they want to run the city. You can be rational sometimes but not all the time. Memories are wonderful things but you shouldn’t assume they’re always accurate. And ambition is great as long as you’re not turning yourself into a megalomaniac and trying to take over the world. M. Alan Thomas II I mean, they’re all aspects of his personality. Any one aspect of anyone’s personality achieving 100% dominance usually results in (or the the result of) a psychiatric disorder. GreatWyrmGold I like this aspect of the conflict. First off, it makes sense; Menace and Anima are parts of the same person, so it makes sense that they’d value the same things. Second off, it leads to more nuanced conflicts; they have the same goals, but they see different ways of achieving them. It might just be personal preference, but I find “Your ideals are bad, so I’ll destroy you!” to be far less engaging than “Your actions are bad, so I’ll destroy you!” Orzahn It seems to me Anima just corrupted the memory. I don’t like her. Eli Pomerantz corrupted it as in she put a metaphorical shadow over it, tainting it with less pure point of view, or that she literally is the one spreading the “component” she is talking about Julia McGuire I suspect that ‘component’ is going to turn out to be ’emotions’ or ‘sentiment’. Anima doesn’t like it, and talks about a time before the component as a time of ‘pure rationality’. So the painting/memory being infected with component means that it was a time when Patrick was feeling particularly emotional/emotionally vulnerable. After Alison called Patrick out and he started to re-evaluate himself, the city in his head started breaking down because he doesn’t have the techniques to center himself in a time of emotional instability, especially if his strategy before was just dumping all his emotions without properly dealing with them. StClair Ohhh yeah, been there. “Life was so much simpler back when I was in denial could pretend to be was a being of pure rational thought and intellect, before I became aware of was forced to acknowledge was infected by all these messy, disruptive feelings, disturbing my peace/reason/equilibrium.” Orzahn I think she actually spread the component here, but the other replies also seem to make sense. Component is emotion and she loathes it. AdamBombTV Kinda feel sorry for Patrick if that’s his greatest memory… That means he’s gone his entire life without eating a really good pancake breakfast. Kid Chaos Break out the Bisquick! 😜 Gotham He’s a multi-billionaire. A good pancake breakfast is every morning, that’s what makes them mundane. Or maybe he likes to organize and the pancake breakfast section of the library is just one corner over. Eric Meyer I don’t think you quite understand. He’s had “High Quality” pancake breakfasts, due to being rich. A “Good” pancake breakfast is one where you have to wait at the counter or table for a few minutes while the person making it is finishing up, because you were woken by the smell of the sausage. And so you sit there, making small talk until the pancakes are done, while the rest of the food cools off. Then, then pancakes come out and they’re too hot to handle, and a couple of them are a little bit burned on one side. So you try to butter them without burning your fingers. And the people you’re with are all doing the same thing, and everyone’s saying ‘thank you’ to the person who cooked, and the sausages and syrup and butter is passed around the table willy-nilly, everyone keeps getting up to get their preferred breakfast drink (which you all forgot to get before), and by the time everyone actually starts eating, everything’s cooled off to just a little less warm than you’d really like, but it doesn’t matter, because the food is delicious and the company is warm enough to make up for it. Gotham Keep your kinks out of this family friendly forum you weirdo shink You are hilarious. Gotham (Can’t quite make out if sarcasm or not) palmvos I’m trying to figure out if both of you are sarcastic. my sarcasm detector app is broken right now… Eli Pomerantz comic referenced is http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-3/841/ magnetoo Perhaps this only occurred for ease of narrative, but who has “memories” in which they perceive themselves from a third person perspective? Obviously Patrick could have second hand memories like that, but this is a first hand memory, and no-one saw it from the perspective we are seeing it. palmvos I have 3rd person memories like that. It may have some relation to the emotional impact of the memory. wahahahaha So why are his memories in 3rd person view. Olivier Faure … aaaand you just ruined this page for me. Gotham It wasn’t necessarily the case for the other portraits. But this one maybe has to to account to Alison’s laugh whom he wasn’t directly looking at. He has to pick a frame that accounts for all he perceives, even if this is a special case where he didn’t seem to realize he did not quite read Alison’s emotional status correctly. But it posits an interesting question. These are memories, that 2D static images don’t really encompass completely. I get that these are metaphors but one could think of other ways to represent memories that aren’t conventional, multidimensional gifs that play into senses other than vision for instance, or something much much more abstract, like a watermark of events the way a spacetime diagram represent reality, and are completely impossible to “decode” by merely looking at it. I mean why not. Eric Meyer …don’t you remember things in 3rd person? entirelyuseless Many people have memories like this, including myself on occasion. Obviously those are not memories of direct experience but reconstructed. But they still feel like memories, and they have some correspondence with what happened. Zinc Actually, even ignoring the pointed out fact that it’s quite normal to have (somehow corrupted) 3rd person memories, I think this makes perfect for Patrick speficially. Whenever he is with other people, he experiences every moment from the view point of every person in the room with simultaneously. It stands to reason that his memories would be composed of all those viewpoints together, like a movie scene shot from multiple angles. He could remember it from Alison’s viewpoint, his own, or a composite, which would result in a 3rd person view of both of them. Olivier Faure Anima is like “Positive emotions. Feelings. This place is really going to pieces.” Also, more evidence that Patrick is emotionally dependent on Allison to an unhealthy degree! Yeah! OccamsTireIron Or maybe – just maybe! – Anima is trying to point out the latter? IDK. I didn’t get a “feelings are evil” vibe off this page. I got a “Record-Keeper’s obsession with nostalgic (and inaccurate) memories of a relationship that is now Very Over is everything that’s wrong with Patrick” Pol Subanajouy Come now, why don’t we all go to our memories and doubt the details for awhile? Perhaps you’ll find their value can weather such scrutiny. We are humans after all. We remember places, people but not details. And we’re highly emotional animals, after all, not highly intellectual ones. Even the great Patrick. Philip Bourque Human memory is the worst recording device ever, if you`re going for accuracy. An example: ever heard of 90s a movie titled Shazam starring Sinbad? If you do, I got news for you: it doesn’t exist, but a lot of people ‘remember’ it does. Check out this article, interesting stuff: https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/movie-doesn-t-exist-and-redditors-who-think-it-does Mechwarrior Carefully watch the basketball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo Ricardo Alves Junqueira Pentea Congratulations. I was not much a fan of the current arch, but this one scene changed that. JohnTomato Serious eyebrows are serious. AmbiguousMouse I was just recently thinking about that moment and how it was probably the first time he’d ever heard a joke without knowing the punchline right from the start. Now I realize it was even more fundamental than that, and… Poor Patrick. Julia McGuire Yeah. I’m loving this story arc because it’s letting us see Alison’s relationship with Patrick from his perspective rather than hers. Since the beginning of their relationship, Alison thought he was so much healthier and happier than he actually was. Judging from how the inside of his head looks, the short time he spent with Alison was the happiest he’d ever been. Yet she had no idea how much he valued her. It’s quite tragic. This story arc is also interesting when you consider that Alison was always vaguely uncomfortable with the fact that he knew everything about her, but never let her know anything about him. Well, shoe’s on the other foot now, I guess. She’s getting a grand tour of all of his deepest secrets and hangups. Tylikcat A partial caution about the “mess” Patrick was – he had found a way to be functional, with a gift that could have destroyed him. It’s unusual, sure. There may exist things that are more optimal. But sit back for a moment and admire his accomplishment, because it would have been a hell of a lot easier for him to go down – and look at everything he did to survive. Unless there is going to be some kind of de-Max-imizing scenario (which I would find repugnant as well as thematically inappropriate), this is unlikely to be a story about how Patrick turns into a Real Boy. Hopefully it is going to involve Patrick rebuilding himself, and hopefully he’s going to come up with something that better serves his own needs (though there seems to be some dissension in the ranks about exactly what those are). But somehow he’s still going to have to continue to be who his is and live functionally with the talent that he has if he is going to live functionally at all. Julia McGuire Er, “de-Max-imizing”? And I don’t think I wasn’t giving him credit. He’s accomplished a hell of a lot, given how difficult it must be to have his powers. In his own words, he nearly managed to take over the world as, “a mentally-unstable 14-year-old”. However I was more commenting on how this chapter is deconstructing Alison’s vision of Patrick from the beginning of the comic, when she looked up to him and thought of him as someone who generally had his shit together. In retrospect, she wasn’t just his best friend, she was his only friend. That’s not healthy at all. We also can’t be sure how functional he was either, given his strange breakdown when Alison went to see him about Moonshadow. Seeing the way he’s deteriorated since then, he clearly wasn’t coping as well as he seemed to be. Not quite sure what you mean by “[turn] into a Real Boy” either. I think his confrontation with Alison brought a lot of things he’d been trying to hide from himself to the surface, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. He’s now at a point where he might finally be able to deal with some of these contradictions within himself in a more healthy way than he has been up to now. All represented by the metaphor of the crumbling city. (An aside: I really do love this kind of framing device. This arc’s been a whole lot of fun. Reminds me of that one Teen Titans episode where they go into Raven’s head). Arkone Axon Anima is increasingly coming off as a dangerous and negative element here. “Look at this. Infected with Component.” Which she’s already described as emotions, as… feelings. Getting a real “Atlas from Bioshock” vibe from her… masterofbones In this case the emotions had made him believe something objectively false, so I don’t know why you consider recognizing that as a bad thing Arkone Axon What “objectively false” thing did he believe? The only time we’ve heard him expounding on his beliefs was when he claimed that people’s lives are things to be spent and that everyone is a snowflake in a blizzard. At which point Alison called him on his shit. And that memory that she called “Infected with Component” is infected with… happy emotions, emotions of friendship and affection and most likely romance. Sneering at “component” like that smacks of the emo idiot Kylo Ren from “Force Awakens.” “Help me, grandfather… help me to resist the Light Side…” masterofbones That memory was incorrect. The memory showed Allison laughing at the cartoon, which she did not do in reality. The component had infected the memory, changing it from reality into a rose-tinted scene that did not fit actual events. The component caused him to lie to himself about how things had happened. palmvos human memory is very very malleable. this is a minor edit. whole incidents in fairly good detail have been manufactured in the real world. to judge Patrick so harshly, for what appears to be a normal human trait, is not really a good idea. also, http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-3/page-47-2/ panel 4- that’s a laugh being stifled, or perhaps a giggle. yes the authors point to the prior page but who’s to say they didn’t watch a marathon that night and this is all we saw. (in fact looking ahead they did watch a fair number) also, this whole arc needs to be taken as symbols and metaphors. in objective reality we are in a place where there are no measurements, no rulers, stopwatches, or any other measuring instruments work here. also as far as we know no recording can be done here either, so even if we measure we cannot record. so, are you seriously going to allege that Alison did not enjoy herself that night? that this was not a mostly positive interaction? look at what Alison attempted after the show was over. masterofbones Its an objectively false representation of events, because the memory was changed by “component”/emotions. Saying “its close” doesn’t change that. Recognizing when you have incorrectly remembered something is a *good* thing. And I dont really get why you feel the need to use strawmen arguments. Yes Allison enjoyed herself, but there is a massive difference between “two people enjoying a tv show” and “one person enjoying a tv show while the other wishes they were banging”. Once again, recognizing that difference is a good thing. Arkone Axon That’s not a strawman argument, Palmvos is pointing out (quite rightly) that memories are imperfect by their very nature. It’s why multiple witnesses of an event will give multiple (and often conflicting) accounts of the events. It’s even led to a style of storytelling where multiple characters narrate the same events over and over, and the result is multiple stories to entertain the viewer: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RashomonStyle “In reality, this condition is so common it’s often said that if you have 12 witnesses to a crime, you’ll often get at least 13 different stories of what happened.” This has actually led to wrongful incarceration of people being harassed by the police, when they go after the suspect because some of the repetitions of the story differed in slight details. It’s how they sent Martha Stewart to prison (as a scapegoat to distract from how the Enron executives and other Wall Street types were getting away with their crimes; the only corporate executive to see the inside of prison during that particular time period was Stewart, when they convicted her of perjury – by making her repeat her side dozens of times, then declaring “AH HAH! YOU LIED THAT TIME! GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!”) masterofbones >are you seriously going to allege that Alison did not enjoy herself that night? that this was not a mostly positive interaction? Are you claiming that I argued this at some point? If not, its a strawman. Oh hey look, I never argued that, so its a strawman. QED — You seem to think that I dont understand that memory is malleable. I do. Anima points it out very clearly, though you seem to think poorly of her for arguing *exactly* what you are arguing now. The only difference I see is that Anima very rightly sees this as a *problem to be overcome*, rather than something “sweet” in a reality-denying twisted way Arkone Axon Helpful hint: if you overuse an accusation, you destroy its impact. Calling every single argument that disagrees with yours a strawman only establishes that you either don’t know what a strawman is, or think “strawman” means “any opinion that disagrees with mine.” You called Palmvos’ argument a strawman. I pointed out that it’s not. At no point did I ever accuse you of a strawman argument. (or to use your own phrasing, “are you claiming that I called your argument a strawman? Oh hey look, I never argued that, so it’s a strawman. QED”) And yes, I think poorly of Anima for describing happy emotions and positive feelings about interpersonal relationships as a negative thing, as a “component” to be cleansed. Especially since your entire argument is that Patrick’s memory is imperfect based on the one panel in the page. And as Palmvos ALSO rightly points out, that one panel shows one moment in time; that particular cartoon (“Rabbit Fire”) has a total run length of 7:00. Plenty of time in which to laugh – and that’s assuming they didn’t go on to watch many, many more, as Patrick discovered the joys of animation. It is FAR more likely that Alison and Patrick shared at least one moment of simultaneous giggling and guffawing, between Daffy’s meltdown and Elmer’s confused blastage. masterofbones Okay, this seems to be confusing you, so I will explain it as concisely and simply as possible. 1. A strawman argument is when you make up a bad argument to disprove, rather than disproving your opponent’s *actual* argument. 2. I claimed that it was a good thing to recognize when you misremember something 3. Palmvos accused me of claiming that Alison didn’t enjoy the night in question. 4. I never made such a claim, and such a claim would have been stupid to make. 5. Therefore, they made a strawman out of my position. Q E fucking D — As for the question of whether or not this *was* a misremembered memory(completely irrelevant to the argument at hand btw), all parties involved are agreeing that it was misremembered, and what we saw of the scene backs that assertion up. Scholar dude never even tries to suggest that Alison is wrong here, he merely repeatedly asserts that it is the best memory. Arkone Axon Yeah… 1: You accused Palmvos, then me, of resorting to strawman arguments. 2: your exact words were “The memory showed Allison laughing at the cartoon, which she did not do in reality.” 3: You’re attempting to obfuscate the argument. It’s very simple: you claimed that Patrick was remembering a false memory, we pointed out that the memory is in fact pretty accurate, you started accusing us of resorting to strawman arguments. Along with a condescending attitude, which doesn’t work even when you are in fact correct. Which you are not. As for the question of whether or not this was a misremembered memory (which is the original argument, before you attempted to derail things by making it about whether or not you were accusing us of resorting to strawman arguments (you were) and whether or not we were (we were not)), all parties were in agreement that yes she was laughing. A slight “fudging” of the exact details is to be expected in memories. That does not make it a “false” memory, it makes it a standard memory. I can’t remember all the details of my old elementary school, but I certainly remember going to said school. I don’t even remember the exact phrasing I used the last time I ordered a meal at a restaurant, but that doesn’t mean my memory of eating at said restaurant is false. I’d follow up with a “Q E fucking D,” except that’d just be petty and ridiculous – just as it is when you used it. You haven’t “checkmated” anyone with any of your posts, and acting as if the people you address are beneath you like that just makes you come across as a twit. masterofbones So first off, whether the memory was accurate wasn’t even the original point. The point was that Anima was bothered because *she* believed the memory to be inaccurate(which it was btw, I guarantee it). I stated that such a stance (one should correct false memories) is a good one. Now on to determining whether the memory was correct or incorrect. “mostly correct” can be ignored because for the purposes of this discussion, *any* discrepancy means it is an incorrect memory, and is therefore worthy of correction. “mostly accurate” implies somewhat inaccurate, which is in essence agreeing with my argument. Anima has seen how component has altered the memory(in quite a significant way I might add) and wants to fix it. So since you have already agreed with me, I don’t even have to argue my side! WRT to the all the strawman bickering, you are playing with some mental gymnastics that I want no part in. You can enjoy yourself without me. >acting as if the people you address are beneath you I make it a point to treat people with all of the respect they deserve Arkone Axon Yeah… you sound like Eric Cartman trying to win a debate. Including the bit at the end there… let me clue you in on a little something. The old school gentlemen and renaissance men and ladies and personages you’re trying to imitate? They didn’t “treat people with all of the respect they deserve,” i.e. they didn’t sneer dismissively at people who disagreed with them and say, “you do not share my opinions, therefore you are an idiot, good day sir.” They actually tended towards positions such as “I disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,” or “which of us is right, only history will be able to judge.” Attempting to ape formal speech and literature in order to convey juvenile attitudes just makes you look all the more juvenile. masterofbones So you are going to prove my point about you instead of defending your argument about the comic. Well, you are entertaining if nothing else. Arkone Axon Thank you. I’m here through thursday; try the buffet. Nightsbridge Hm. I think that maybe, just maybe, neither Menace nor Anima are in the ‘right’ here. There are five patricks in this city. Arkone Axon Very good point. Roman Snow I didn’t see it before, but now Anima is giving off some shady vibes. Tylikcat Can I just mention how happy I am that so far the element of Patrick who we’ve seen pushing the pure logic agenda is female? I mean sure, it’s a flawed agenda, but way to go against thousands of years of western cultural gender stereotyping. Rawr! Arkone Axon I’m just pleased to see that the female element is being shown as increasingly… less than virtuous. There’s a regrettable tendency to present female characters as the good guys in a situation, even when their actions make them a “designated hero” at best. When you depict any one group as being 100% bad guy or 100% good guy, you’ve created a climate of bigotry. Even as it stands, we’ve seen comments for this webcomic that posit female characters as morally right and male characters as morally wrong, even when the male characters are the victims of crimes committed by the female characters. Which is not only sexist towards the men (“Men are ALWAYS at fault”), but also towards women (“Women are NEVER at fault”). After all, if a woman literally can’t be evil, then she has no… free will. No agency to choose her path and own the consequences. Whereas allowing a female the right to choose to be evil legitimizes her choice to be good – she made the “hero’s choice,” rather than being an automaton of benevolence. Every day that Alison struggles to find a better way to improve the world rather than succumb to the urge to tyranny and violence is a moral victory rather than a “women are just naturally good” cliche. Not to mention that female villains can be awesome and interesting characters in their own right – Azula in “Avatar: the Last Airbender,” or Kuvira in “the Legend of Korra.” And of course Maleficent in “Sleeping Beauty.” (Maleficent deserves special recognition because she A: had a legitimate grudge against the protagonists – two hostile neighboring kingdoms making an alliance while openly snubbing her; B: was NOT defeated by the hero. The three good fairies had to not only walk the prince through everything, they also delivered the deathblow when she couldn’t; and C: made it clear what kind of power she had. Jaffar was a sneaky vizier, Ursula slunk in the shadows, but Maleficent hurled lightning, breathed fire, and delivered dramatic lines with flair, ” Now, shall you deal with ME, O Prince – and all the powers of HELL!”) Gotham Once again, thank God for the all-knowing Arxone without the boundless wisdom and constant insistance of which, one hydrogen atom somewhere in the universe might one day forget that women can be evil. A scenario the terrificality of which can only be matched by His eternal glorious righteousness! Amanda I really want that picture to use as a wallpaper. They’re both so happy- reasons aside, they’re both truly enjoying that moment. I love that memory too. shink There’s another oddity about this memory no one seems to be pointing out. Alison wasn’t actually laughing at the Loony Tunes show, she watched Patrick laugh. This is Patrick projecting his emotions onto others, something that he probably basically never does do to the nature of his power. Danygalw We’re not pointing it out because Alison did. Jimmyjims I did wonder if it would be this scene and it really makes sense as something cherished and positive. Thinking about it most humour involves an element of surprise and I guess his powers make that pretty hard. On top of that, ‘perfect’ empathy means humour that relies on not empathising with a particular party would be difficult since Patrick has probably ‘walked-in-the-shoes’ of a LOT of people, add Patrick’s highly logical mind and….Laughter, like real honest deep innocent, this-thing-has-caught-me-off-guard-and-isn’t-undermined-by-some-off-note…would be pretty hard to come by. And all in the presence of someone who knows who he was and what he is capable of and what his power is constantly doing but they are still at ease around him. I bet that kind of background mental noise of acceptance and ‘love/affection?’ paired with this brush with humour would be a pretty unusual and pleasant memory. A hand full of moments that make up the difference huh? Oracle It’s late and I’m probably just rambling, but I’m starting to think that the Component isn’t toxic at all. What we know about the Component: – Unlike everything else we encounter in Patrick’s mind, the component has no personality or underlying metaphor – The various personas in Patrick’s mind clearly believe that the Component is a harmful pollutant – The only thing thus far that we have seen the Component doing is embellishing a first-hand memory– hardly an unusual phenomenon What I’m getting at here is that I think the Component represents an emotional aspect of Patrick himself. The Id, perhaps. Unlike the Menace (Patrick as a supervillain dictator), Anima (Patrick as a woman (and also as the anima)), Sentinel (Alison as a budding kaiju), and Record-Keeper (Patrick as a dude who keeps records), the Component has no distinguishing features. It ‘infects’ a memory from a moment when Patrick was watching cartoons– and thus has no telepathic frame of reference to refine data– by inserting a sympathetic bias by extending his own emotional state to Alison. Thirdly- and this point is perhaps most tenuous, I must admit, because it has been awhile since my last archive binge and I am not entirely certain I still have a decent measure of Patrick’s character– Patrick is a big believer in the Vulcan conception of logic: cold, mathematical, and free of the ‘taint’ of emotion. While drunk!conscious!Patrick openly displays spite and maybe jealousy at Clevin, I don’t think it’s that much of a reach to suppose that (at least unconsciously) Patrick hates himself all the more for his irrational pettiness. And while the fact that Patrick in his real-life supervillain days did extensively employ robotic enforcers detracts from the gravity of this final assertion, I nonetheless find it noteworthy that other than Alison, the Menace persona has exclusively used cold, emotionless machines to do his bidding. Oracle Wait a second, no, that’s basically exactly what Anima described four pages ago. Time for a reread. Jillian Rogero I JUST SPENT THREE HOURS GOING THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND I CATCH UP TO THE ARC THAT HAS ME LITERALLY ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT?!?!?! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Psile Am I the only one who imagined the archivist actually saying ‘huff, puff’?