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Lostman Great, now that I feel a little for the guy he going to die. Kid Chaos I dunno; Moonshadow usually doesn’t target other “Supers” directly. Maybe she wants to recruit him to her cause? Lostman Maybe… although see how he made that speech on live television, I doubt she here tea and cookies… Rich McGee Obvious question is whether Tiffany dumped him because of what he said, or if he was abusive toward her himself. He clearly has not had a respectful relationship with past romantic interests. Guys who insist all their exes are crazy are usually madmen themselves. If he’s an abuser himself rather than just a misogynistic loudmouth, he’s certainly a dead man. Rod Just based on timing, I’d wager it was what he said. Which also suggests that he wasn’t abusive to her, and that Mary is crossing yet another line, and is going to kill him regardless. Liz Nah, he said, “Tiffany won’t even talk to me anymore,” which implies that her hostility has moved up a gradient, but that it was there before the tv incident. And usually you don’t break up with someone just because they said something stupid on tv. I think we’re jumping to conclusions with “abuser.” I could definitely see him gaslighting and being an asshole, but if he has this much respect for his mom I don’t think he’d be one to abuse women. Slut-shame and gaslight maybe, and I might be wrong, but that’s my hunch. Subbak “You don’t break up with someone just because they said something stupid on tv”. Really? What he said on TV seems like a good reason to dump him. chaosvii Yeah there’s always the chance that she was wavering on the choice beforehand. Then a bunch of people she trusted (possibly even some who thought they should stay together) told Tiffany that he was clearly bad news/dangerous because of what he said on TV. Liz Let me rephrase: “You don’t break up with someone that you’re engaged to solely because they said something stupid on tv.” With a bunch of other incidents building up to this? Yeah. But not by itself, especially if you’re invested enough in the relationship to have a ring on it. KatherineMW Given what he said – which is that he would kill rape victims (and assume they were lying) if they went to the police – yeah, I can definitely see dumping a guy for that. And I’m fairly sure, especially given the end of this strip, that Moonshadow considers his threat against rape victims sufficient reason to kill him. Jerden I doubt he’d ever join her, as he considers her victims innocent. From Furnace’s perspective Moonshadow is a villain. She might be here to kill him. Either Furnace has a secret in his past, or Moonshadow’s decided to combat rape culture instead of just killing rapists. Meghan I wonder from his comment if he’s actually a returning soldier who was used on the front lines as a Supers combatant, or if it’s just that he saw a bunch of his friends die in the line of hero-ing. I thought it was the latter for a while, but the way he’s speaking makes it seem like maybe he served too. KatherineMW He was definitely in combat as a super-‘hero’, and unlike Allison or Feral he doesn’t have abilities that let him come out of combat unscathed: look at the old photo of him with his mom, he’s got his arm in a sling and bandages over his eye. Rich McGee That was risky. If the pain of the taser shocks had triggered an defensive flash like we saw a few strips ago, Mary would have ended up a charred corpse. Stealth loses to AoE attacks unless her powers have evolved into true insubstantiality. You’d think somebody who’s so big on sneakiness would consider the merits of slipping something into a dangerous target’s food and drink rather than take chances like this. Rod On the flip side, him suddenly realizing he was poisoned carries similar risk, and is more likely to be putting innocents in harms way if she spiked his drink at some restaurant. Benly That kind of unconscious flash is apparently new for him, though. She may not know that it could happen in response to a surprise attack. Pol Subanajouy Wow. “But I’m not gonna disappear”, I really hope those weren’t dramatically ironic last words or nothing. And Moonshadow, c’mon, he’s at his dad’s grave. You really gotta taser him in the back? I know he’ll be hard to capture otherwise, but that’s just cold. dbmag9 He’s at his mom’s grave, going by the speech (and the name ‘Donna’ on the grave). Pol Subanajouy I stand corrected. motorfirebox Welp. Mystery girl A very poignant page today… Hzid You know its always good when you see another sides of a character, it brings a different perspective on them. Though now I’m curious if his whole rant, was him expressing his views or just him in the moment. chaosvii That was cool of Tiffany yeah. I like that Chris chose the phrase “Everyone’s at my throat,” given Moonshadow’s timing. AL Tei i feel for him. He’s just…stubborn. If he lives through this maybe he’ll grow a little. I would like to see that, instead of another man-hater killing. Gryphonic This. The last two pages show that while he’s an ass, he’s not a two-dimensional one. Here he even seems to grasp at least part of his own problems: being a child soldier without a support network for the rest of life. The negative attention his public statements have garnered is really upsetting him privately; he’s not just laughing it off. He has the potential to grow much more, or at least develop in an interesting fashion. I never thought I’d say this 24 hours ago but I’d be sad to see him die now. scottfree It’s my own personal head canon that Furnace has had his ass kicked by other powered heroes before. I’m guessing Moonshadow knew this would work because it’s not the first time Furnace has been tazed. Charles M. Hagmaier In front of a grave, no less. Kid Chaos On top of everything, it’s his *mother’s* grave! So much bad karma, so little time… ampg Yeah, there’s a lot of “wounded warrior” stuff going on here. RobNiner Looks like the hot one got knocked out COLLLD sorry I’ll go. masterofbones At the very least, his behaviours are attracting a bad crowd, which suggests that maybe he should change them. masterofbones But he isn’t a rapist… which seemed like her big thing. With this action she loses any shred of nobility to her cause that was left. She is just a bloodthirsty murderer at this point. chaosvii He isn’t *necessarily* a rapist based on what has been presented so far. There wasn’t a whole lot of evidence that the judge who beat his wife was so much as an accused & acquitted rapist either, yet Moonshadow slashed the judge too. Was it because of the domestic abuse? Was it because of his involvement in tilting the court away from finding those boys guilty of their crimes? The comic doesn’t say, but it shows that she was already willing & able to encompass “enablers” as her targets. Which I think nicely mirrors Furnace’s ignoble threat towards all who “enable” the murders she does. kalmia Right before the judge is murdered, his abused wife asks him, “Why don’t our daughters ever visit us?” He’s just mentioned the rape trial he presided over. Her comment could have been a non sequitur, but to me the implication is that he sexually abused his kids, his wife suspects, and seeing the way he managed another rape trial pushed her to confront him. It might also have pushed his absent daughters to get in touch with Moonshadow, just like the girl at the beginning of the chapter. It’s clear from other murders that Moonshadow really does her homework, so I think her profile has so far been rapist-specific. But, like you, I don’t think Furnace will turn out to be a rapist. So if this is Moonshadow, I’m pretty curious about what’s going on. Maybe she has finally escalated to enablers, as you’re saying, or maybe she’s finally fudging her research because she’s so excited to murder a superhero. We know from the scene with the ex-soldiers that she sure likes a challenge. masterofbones If he had been accused of rape, it would have been stated already as HIGHLY relevant info(say, by the reporter he talked to). The only other possibility is if he had personally raped moonshadow, but that seems unlikely to me. In other words, as far as moonshadow knows, he is not a rapist. > Which I think nicely mirrors Furnace’s ignoble threat towards all who “enable” the murders she does. It is amusing that she is killing him for implying that he might do what she is doing. chaosvii Ha! Well it’s clearly because Furnace kills people for free, but for the wrong reasons 😛 Perlite Wooo. Furnace, this is the ghost of irony’s past. Quit being such a ass hat. Well this is a shocking new development. He’s made a grave mistake coming here alone; he’s gotta learn to watch his back. On a more serious note: While I do understand him at times (feeling used up). “But he loves his mother” doesn’t excuse anything for me, and the “even” in his little aside about Tiffany has some troubling implications. Insanenoodlyguy I’m not sure why people are assuming that. Furnace seems like a huge jackass. There’s something more underneath, and apparently this girl saw it or at least thought she did, and then Furnace kept being Furnace and she stopped seeing it or stopped thinking it was enough. This seems the most likely situation. Folks don’t like Furnace but assuming more then that is a bit premature. Rumble in the Tumble “I kill every white male that shows any kind of hostility towards females. I’m totally gonna try and recruit a known hothead who called me out in national television!” Where are you even getting these ideas? 눈_눈 If I were to speculate, she wants him all tied up and conscious so she can a) make some great Hannibal speech, trying to rationalise her actions to herself and using Furnace as a sounding board, or b) make a sweet video of her beheading Furnace in the name of the jihad against rape. “Saleel Al Sawarim” playing in the background optional. Also, is that a kind of a photo people put on their graves in America, or is this something specific which I missed? Scar Man!!! who said she restricts herself to white people. That just happens to be the only people we’ve seen her kill. Rape culture is not specific to white guys ampg It’s not uncommon to leave flowers and small personal items on graves, including photos, candles, or stuffed animals. Rich McGee You also see that sort of thing at the site of a death, particularly when it happened in a public space due to violence or accident. My neighborhood has a number of impromptu sidewalk shrines where people have died due to being struck by drunk/drugged drivers. The government stooges remove everything now and then, but they always return within a few days. Kid Chaos Good point! So, is she just going to kill him, or what? This is getting interesting… Liz Mallory I’m really not sure whose side to be on in this panel… Lostman I don’t think were suppose to side with anyone here: yes Furnace is a ass who shots his mouth off but does mean that he should die? Ian Osmond I think “neither” is a perfectly good response. When you’re looking at two bad people fighting, it doesn’t make either of them good. Then again, it’s also pretty clear that “bad people” in this comic are “damaged people”, whose “badness” tends to be explained by the trauma they’ve gone through at ages that they were far too young to process. I think we can both root for neither, because they’re both kinda horrible people, and both of them, because their horribleness is, in some sense, not really their fault. MrSing That tree is working for Moonshadow! Graeme Sutton Ballsy, if I was ever going to take a shot at this guy I’d want something with a bit more range than a taser. And Tungsten bullets I guess. Kid Chaos Stupid, but ballsy. And super effective… Ian Osmond If she’s going to kill him because he’s part of rape culture, she’s gotta kill him the same way she kills other rapists — otherwise, people don’t know. And “people knowing” is the whole point. Anna “I’m not gonna disappear until I get shot in the next panel.” Also, is his last name literally Mackey? Rich McGee His mother’s last name is Mackey. Whether that’s the one he or his father use is unclear. I don’t think we’ve ever seen his last name used on panel. Rens About the second row of panels… Furnace, if you survive this, consider the point that the one constant in all your relationships is you. Also, people aren’t “at your throat cuz of some stuff you said on the news”. You were being a massive asshole in a public forum and you’re getting called out for it. … But then, Furnace doesn’t seem the type to ever think of blaming himself for anything, is he? Jesse Cox He needs a really serious perspective check. I hope he can get one without it needing to kill him to sink in. Jerden Ah, Furnace. How can a man be completely aware of the cause of the problem, and then decide that it’s totally not his fault? Mistress Dizzy Gives him a sense of humanity, a past beyond what’s seen. Furnace/Chris is starting to fill out. Looking at that photo, it reminds me of a side of superhero comics that usually gets skipped. Injuries and recovering. The only one I’ve seen do it is the Hawkeye comics. Showing Furnace as someone who can get damaged, who does break– this is starting to sound like the government is trying to slowly shuffle the supers into obscurity, after all. Trained them up, used them up. And now, wants to make them disappear. Lostman Ya… just like world war one there a build to this; the starting point that most of the capes in this world got there powers when they were teenagers who knew little about responsibility and then got drifted into sugar coded military services , and then after few years of fighting they now. Guess what happen; someone on live television broke the allusion, pointed out that it was all for nothing they were really unless. Now superheroes who are all hammers are now trying to fix the worlds problems with what they know or trying to another which is not going work because they are trying find a fix all which impossible the worlds problems are complex and don’t come down to one issue. This is not going to end well! Charles M. Hagmaier Moonshadow apparently is no Hamlet, and is willing to take him in the purging of his soul, when he is fit and season’d for his passage. Not that she’s likely to catch him in the pleasure of his bed, if his fiancee gave him his walking papers… Guilherme Carvalho ah, the classic shakespearean situation where the guy everyone wants dead should not be killed just now because he’s repenting/praying/being more relatable. I wish I could say just “Fuck Claudius, he had it coming and knew it”, but you got me here. Damn. Jerden And then he dies anyway, to give the death more impact. Right? Scar Man!!! not to mention that a considerable body of evidence points to Allison kinda being a bit of asshole herself back when she was Mega Girl. masterofbones >back when she was Mega Girl. Because she is so much better now that she threatens to murder peaceful protesters? And has to be stopped by a super-villain? Scar Man!!! at least she realizes it now and is trying to be better. That’s where most people are in life. And those protesters were cheering on that guy with the flamethrower as he torched a hospital Classtoise A mob of people screaming for someones head are not “peaceful protestors”. People standing up for their right not to be shot in the back are protestors. That was just a regular mob at the hospital. Scar Man!!! So. Do you think it’s Moonshadow or the Conspiracy? I think it all depends on what the last panel means. If he’s dying, then I think it’s the conspiracy. But it could also mean Moonshadow is expanding her invisibility to cover him Scar Man!!! it still might be the conspiracy. Scar Man!!! recruiting him? What would convince her to try that? He literally threatened, on live television, to kill people who came forward with accusations of rape. Scar Man!!! He only goes AoE if he panics, and that itself seems to be something that only started occurring recently. She might not know he does that now masterofbones He uses fire as a weapon. Fire is an AOE. He ALWAYS uses AOEs Scar Man!!! fireballs masterofbones Are AOEs? Scar Man!!! more like large shells Clare Lane Fire is not always an area attack. There are plenty of Superheros who have bolts and or beams. Johnny Storm of the fantastic four fires contain bursts (although can blow up, something Furnace admits to never having done before). Pyro, Inferno, Firestorm, etc all have discrete beams and fight in teams without accidentally blowing up or harming each other. Real fire does all kinds of fun junk, but superhero fire has no call to follow any type of physics. LOL masterofbones >Johnny Storm of the fantastic four fires contained bursts When he wants to, and there are usually fires blazing afterwards anyway. Thus, AOE. >something Furnace admits to never having done before He has never *accidentally* done so before. Major difference. Emmy “How did they know my one weakness?” Rich McGee He doesn’t need to die to become an example. Removing a few pieces (tongue, genitals) and letting him live would send a chilling message just as well. He’d be a martyr either way, but a live martyr with his personality is likely to screw up and wreck his own image. A dead martyr can no longer make mistakes. Now is Moonshadow far enough gone to think that way and go through with it? Insanenoodlyguy Giving a guy who can turn into a building-wide fire a reason to be A. Unstable and B. Hate you specifically is a bad plan. Killing him is a much smarter move. Jerden Exactly. If he regains consciousness, he could kill Moonshadow easily, just be setting everything ablaze. Rich McGee Good for you if you realized you had a problem. Far too many men decide the common denominator is that they were all women, and therefore all women are crazy. kalmia Aziz Ansari’s character on Parks and Rec said it best: “Luckily, when you’re the guy, you can just tell people she’s crazy. ‘Hey, I heard [you and your girlfriend] broke up!’ ‘Yeah man, turns out she was CRAAAAZY.'” The fact that the only audience for that face-saving excuse is his dead mom makes it kind of hilariously pathetic. Markus Am I the only one who thinks it’s kinda immersion breaking just how much of a prick he is? I’ve met maybe one or two people in my life who were that singularly pigheaded. Mistress Dizzy You are a lucky person, then. I got born into a family of them. Ian Osmond Lucky. KatherineMW Here: http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-5/page-95/ He says that 1) women who are accusing men of rape are lying (“women can just say whatever they want about a man”; “…you want to play fast and loose with the truth”) and 2) he’ll kill people who accuse men of rape (“anybody who makes an accusation while the killer’s at large is an accomplice to these murders”; “might be you waking up in a burning house”). Kid Chaos Blast you, Molly & Brennan; now I’m actually feeling sorry for this (surprisingly three-dimensional) oaf. Scar Man!!! Honestly, there’s really more 3-dimensional characters than 1-dimensional ones in this comic if you don’t count one-page appearances or crowds Mystery girl And that’s a good thing! No one wants a 1D character. Scar Man!!! Except when it’s funny Scar Man!!! shoot Scar Man!!! so I guess he’s a goner then. She’s going to make an example out of him Jack Lostthenames Warren Ugh, every page just gets better and better. Bravo, guys. Insanenoodlyguy Furnace is a jackass with some hangups on women, but it’s not like he’s some misogenistic religions cult leader. If it comes down to “saved by a girl” vs “fatally mutilated with a knife” I’m pretty sure he’s gonna go with that first one without a moment’s hesitation. Then when it’s all done he’ll run the risk of trying to thank Alison in a way he honestly thinks is sincere but ends up coming across in a way that just cements his jackass status further. Darkoneko Hellsing …aren’t you ? Floweramon The average republican? Lots of them advocate for less government interference with citizens (except when it matches their other politics, like controlling marriage, abortion/birth control, surveillance, ect.) and they also tend to advocate for lots of funding toward of military and police. Charles M. Hagmaier The term of art is “Jacksonian”, sometimes tarted up in anthropological costume and called “Scotch-Irish Culture” – see Senator Webb’s book Born Fighting. It wasn’t even a Republican trend in American life until about half-way through the Seventies, when Greater Post-Puritanism won the war for the Democratic Party’s soul, and Greater Appalachia started stampeding towards the door. Nowadays the Jacksonians get into endless pissing matches with the old-line Republicans, “Big Business”, “Movement”, Libertarian Fusionists, die-hard Rockefeller Republicans and the like. They’re the “rough men standing ready” folk, emphasis on “rough”. They tend not to have so much thought through their opinions and principles, as felt them out, with all the emotionalism and pugnacity that implies. masterofbones Well first of all, anyone can easily make good on a death threat. Guns make all that stuff pretty easy with just a tiny amount of prep. >if you consider rape to not be a capital crime, but murder to be one But she clearly doesn’t. ALL she cares about is killing rapists. She is targeting furnace because he is in between her and more of her actual targets. >and you consider a declaration of intent to be good enough justification Not even as bad as a declaration of intent, but an IMPLICATION of intent. Of something violent, rather than specifically murder. If that is enough to make someone worthy of death, then Allison if far higher up on the list of people to kill. But she didnt speak out against moonshadow, so she gets a pass. masterofbones With a surprise attack using an instantly lethal weapon? Sure. With a weapon that instantly stuns someone IF YOU ARE LUCKY, and moreover has a tendency to cause wild uncontrolled actions…. Maybe using it on a guy who accidentally explodes sometimes isnt the best idea. Clare Lane Point here is we know little about his powers, if they are beams, flung small concentrated balls of plasma, etc. Moonshadow probably knows more OR has actually fought him in the past (which is one of my ideas as to why she is doing this maybe). Calling her actions irrational or poorly informed shows what we don’t know of the situation, not what she knows. SO far she has been extremely effective and completely in control of each situation (outside of having to non-lethally wound a civilian to throw off Allison.) masterofbones >Or it’s not a regular tazer At that point you reach the same issue as with clubbing someone into unconsciousness. If you hit them hard enough to go to sleep, you hit them hard enough to kill them. If your tazer is guaranteed to KO someone instantly, then it has a solid chance of killing them. Why not use a gun at that point? Or something not instantly recognizable as an attack? >Not to mention the fact she woudl have no (known) way of knowing his powers have upgraded. He was always able to throw fireballs. He just had more control previously, and wasnt *quite as powerful … >There is very little about her actions that is irrational. LOL. I haven’t seen a rational act from her. If she wants to stop rapists, this is an absolutely terrible way to go about it. If she wants to stop violence, murdering people is a terrible way to go about that. If she wants to help women and doesn’t care about men, she has completely failed to recognize that women and men are interdependent in society and that hurting one group is going to hurt the other. If she wants supers off her tail, killing/kidnapping one of them is the exact opposite of what you want to do. >She is following a pretty tight set of guidelines so far. Consistency and irrationality are not mutually exclusive. If you selectively ignore facts to fit your desires, you are being irrational, even if the facts you ignore are entirely predictable. Arthur Frayn I disagree about her rationality. A person can both make calm, orderly plans and be driven by strong emotion and little regard for their own long term survival. I believe (based on what the story has shown us so far) that Moonshadow was raped by bad guys after Mega Girl retired, and she vowed personal public revenge on an entire class of offender and anyone who enables them. This is not totally irrational as she has the ability and focus to do it, and likely accepts the possibility of her own demise while on this path. She didn’t shoot him with a gun because of the noise, and she wants him alive and semi-concious. Her next move would be to cover him in a flame suppressant and carve graffiti in him like the mercenary leader. I don’t approve of her course of action or “root for her,” but I do think I understand. Clare Lane Blunt force trauma from a lead pipe and a possibly boosted Tazer from a Superhero storehouse are not the same thing, but a boosted Tazer could be more lethal than the current Police issue versions, which can be lethal although rarely. As far as him throwing fireballs, wouldn’t matter, she snuck up on him, and he can’t hit what he can’t see. Moonshadow was more than capable of dealing with an entire military team in close quarters. Rational is subjective, and if she wants to stop THESE particular rapists, well she has. They Dead. They can’t rape anyone anymore. Not quite the most subtle solution but it is absolutely 100% effective. So rational. Stopping violence by murdering people? That is counter productive, you’re right there. So far she has been shown as absolutely against sexual violence, rape in particular, there is nothing to show she is after specifically men outside of the fact they have been her targets. While I assume (as do most) that she is after male perpetrators of raping women in this case, nothing saying she wouldn’t do the same to any man or women guilty (in her mind and evidence) who committed the act. As far as men and women being interconnected and societies system of dealing with that.. SO not getting into that here. LOL Rational thought is based on cause and effect, it has nothing to do with cultural or social stability. A deeply mentally ill individuals ideas of rationality can very different from others, and still maintain internal consistency and rational reactions. They are rational to most, but thats more about Social Ethics, than Morality. Moonshadow isn’t ignoring any facts. The people she hunts (so far) are guilty in her mind, the public system of courts probably means far less to her since she has been used as an extra-legal means of removing and executing criminals (as hinted at by Allison’s talks about the removal of most non-powered organized crime and actions.). You can tell someone they are being unethical, or socially damaging. But rational thought is not a concrete creation. Rumble in the Tumble You don’t understand She had to destroy that village in order to save it Jesse Cox Pro-service, anti-control. Usually stems from a strong belief that good people will help good people if people stay out of their way, and that that’s worth celebrating. Also that ethics come from the gut, not the brain. It makes sense. It’s not always (often?) true, but it’s nothing like crazy. Strong believers tend to also get seriously defensive if the premises are attacked, which…can lead to being an asshole. Graeme Sutton Maybe it’s just because I’ve read worm, but I tend to assume that people will have an in-built immunity to their own powers and the logical consequences thereof. Also, he didn’t seem to be hindered at all by lack of oxygen after immolating that house 2 pages ago. Ian Osmond From a story-point-of-view, it can work either way. Realizing that he’s a guy who’s an asshole because he’s damaged would make his death meaningful, or would mean that we could root for him to change if he survives. In either case, a character who’s an asshole for actual REASONS rather than because the plot needs an asshole here makes for a far better story. Charles M. Hagmaier The weird thing about this whole Furnace/Moonshadow thing is the recent back-fill on Furnace’s character strongly implies that he’s coming from a culture where rape *is* a lynching offense. Which is what Moonshadow is doing – she’s a one-woman lynch mob. Charles M. Hagmaier I associate the name Mackey with the anti-hero from The Shield, personally… Er, villain protagonist? I don’t know what to call Vic Mackey… Mechwarrior Mackie’s back in town. Balthazar “I swear, I will never die.” -Famous Last Words ampg Yeah, I met one on the subway just the other day. Guy stomped on a woman’s foot and then wanted HER to apologize to HIM for getting upset about it. When she explained that he had been standing on a bone that had healed from a break rather recently, he told her she “probably hadn’t gotten laid in a while.” Scar Man!!! Depends on the ground type Scar Man!!! her interactions with Pintsize and her bat-faced teammate who’s name escapes me. Q danima Funny thing, though — her anomaly probably renders her immune to fame. It would be hard (and getting harder) for her to be effective at all in the public sphere. Jerden It’s the belief that violence is the only thing the government does right. Everything else is socialist bullshit. Jerden You have to combat the underlying causes of social problems. By killing them, or course. masterofbones Ah I see. Maybe not survival(his heat is pretty great defensively), but his general successes look like they are probably mostly attributable to luck.