SFP

Markus

This is one of those things that tells you Daniel is a much more empathetic person than he lets on. He likes to project like he doesn’t care whether anyone gets hurt, but really he just hurts people because his sometimes sees himself as so awful that he can’t believe he would do anything other than terrible amounts of harm.

MrSing

I’m sure that’s a comfort to all those people he must have killed, directly and indirectly, during his days.
- chaosvii
  
  Your rhetort reminds me of this one statement from Burn Notice that reflects on the pitiful nature of many monstrous people: “Spend enough time in international hot spots, and you’ll learn that a lot of the worst monsters on earth are just spoiled rich kids.”
  It is sad that people are put under strange pressures and given stranger freedoms to result in never really understanding that their whims & sorrows are not so important as to cost others their lives, but the fact that they were dealt a cruel hand does not excuse their own cruelty. All it does is explain why their choices to commit atrocities are not so unbelievable in retrospect.
- Masala Nilsson
  
  Er no, not at all? You’re confusing effect and blame. It is perfectly possible to understand and empathise with, or even decide not to blame, a person while still admitting what they’ve done is beyond horrible.
  
  The effects of your actions being horrendous isn’t the same as everything being your fault, and conversely, something not being your fault isn’t the same as you never ever having hurt anyone. Life’s more complicated than that.

Lostman

Ach!

∫Clémens×ds

I mean, Cleaver is the first to know what it’s like to receive unrequited lust ever since his transformation. The letters fangirls-and-boys send him in prison? Boiling hot.

And you know what? I’m so very glad Alison has one friend among them all to speak of shallow subjects for damn once, the kind which actually reveal a surprising amount of hidden depth to themselves, among her litanies of argument about social progress and struggles of ideologies. Have a little fun, Alison. Tell him what your perfect date would be like.

(I swear to Old Ones if the next page is about the ethics of power dynamics in a relationship where one can literally throw the other into the core of the Earth during an argument, I’m going to sigh really loudly)

Iarei

“I swear; if I get ONE more letter that uses the phrase ‘cleave me in twain with your massive…’ I am going to break out and raze the goddamn city.”
– Cleaver
Markus

The cruelest hell you can wish on a person is sexy prison letters and only knife hands to whack it with.
Guilherme Carvalho

I really like your threat there.

pointy

Love the third panel and final panel dialogue!

chaosvii

I mean sure, it’s a recent concept for me to be fully feel, but all the same, hurting people when ya don’t wanna is terrible.

∫Clémens×ds

Is is recent? I thought it was a callback to the time he mistakenly hurt (or killed?) his parents/caretakers way back in issue 1 or 2. Fully felt enough, I was thinking. Or are you going to have me go back and read the whole webcomic all other again?
- chaosvii
  
  Aha! The tables have turned! Now it is YOU who is heckling the joke made in poor taste!
  - Tylikcat
    
    I’ve been pondering where (or if!) to put this, but I think this comment wins. Or more probably loses.
    
    So, while, reading through this, kind of chuckling about some of the ‘shipping going on, I had what is likely the most problematic though I’ve ever had about a comic.
    
    Caveat first: In pop culture, people usually make way too much of hymens. I think people (men in particular) are fascinated with the idea that virginity can be both known and checked for, and that a man’s penis can permanently change the state of a woman’s body. The actual anatomy? Isn’t so straight forward. A lot of women have hymens that stretch without tearing during PiV sex just fine. A lot of women tear their hymens some other way. Some couple can’t manage to budge the hymen and must seek medical help, etc. It’s complicated, and so much less about male vanity than a lot of folks would like to think.
    
    That all being said, if you’re invulnerable, many kinds of hymen configurations could be… problematic. I mean, think of all the problems Al has getting a hair cut – and a hymen is living tissue, and should be fully protecting.
    
    Obvs but terrible thoughts:
    
    1. “Look, the only way it’s going to work the first time is if we do it while flying!”
    
    2. Cleaver. (Mostly terrible because of lack of privacy, impending death, etc.)
    
    …I mean, I really hate the idea of anything that plays into hymen mythology, considering how much incredibly stupid hymen mythology there is,* so I kind of want to just go with a headcannon where it’s just not an issue, or fits into “things under subconscious control”…
    
    * So much of women being in pain the first time is stress and fear and nothing at all to do with hymens.

David

Cue the Barry White music…

David

It’s very telling that Alison believe’s most of the world are pedophile perverts. Really puts the whole conversation about the Queen running through pawns in perspective.

SuddenFan

You don’t think she’s being realistic? Look at all the rule 34 and fake porn made of Chloe Grace Moretz over the last 5 years (Or, y’know… don’t).
Prodigal

It also follows from the subject of Hermione, most especially in relation to the worst and creepiest parts of the fanbase Emma Watson developed as the movies progressed.
Badtux

I would imagine that the online forums of the Alisonverse are full of Megagirl porn and “I’d like to poke that!” kind of comments, just like in this universe where strong women are typically the target of that kind of misogyny. Cyber-bullying of women who dare to be strong women is a favorite past-time of insecure men in this universe and I doubt it’d be different in the Alisonverse. I’m sure Alison has googled herself at least once and caught at least a whiff of that kind of nauseous stuff…
- MrSing
  
  It happens to men and women. It has little to do with misogyny.
  Men watch filth, women read filth. If you’re famous you’ll get used in the fantasies of both.
  - phantomreader42
    
    It happens to both men and women, but it happens to women a whole lot MORE! Look at the blind, undying hatred MRAssholes and GrumpyGoats vomit forth at the women they’re obsessed with. There’s nothing remotely resembling that directed against men.
    - MrSing
      
      Are we talking about hatred? I thought it was about writing dirty stuff about celebrities.
      People just like sexualising famous people, and some people, men and women, don’t care about how those famous people might feel about it.
Happyroach

Welcome to the internet!
Mx Miki

She also may be referring to people her own age, who were teens when she was a hero.
FlashNeko

Why assume she means everyone interested in her sexually back then were just pedophiles?

Sure, those are a sadly inevitable element of being a child/teen celebrity but there are plenty of horny and sexually curious 14-year olds out there who draw/write pornography about celebrities/animated characters the same age they are.

Now, that doesn’t make it any less creepy and disturbing for the target of that curiosity but assuming Alison meant “most of the world are pedophile perverts” implies a bit more malice to her thoughts than seems warented.
- phantomreader42
  
  It’s creepy that these people are fantasizing about her without knowing anything about her, and might feel kinda violating. It’s even creepier that she’s underage while they’re doing this, and they don’t seem to care. It becomes creepier still when you get into the kinds of fantasies some of them would have considering her public persona and anomaly (which doesn’t lend itself to QUITE as much squick as Cleaver or Feral, but there’s a lot of room for disturbing things). Though at least SOME of the people fantasizing about Mega-Girl would prefer her grown-up and consenting, and want to be gentle and respectful, there are likely to be enough who DON’T feel that way to make the whole thing extremely fucked-up.
chaosvii

I just wanted to note that “ephebophile” is the more accurate term for anyone that is attracted to her as a side effect of her being famous during adolescence.

Perhaps she is complaining about her being lusted after for little reason other than because she is famous. That she’d rather attract others through means that she can self-identify as an intentionally “sexy” thing she does or is proud of. It would certainly go well with her general rejection of the notion that she should be treated like she knows what she’s doing in all non-punchy, non-bulletproof, non-flying aspects of life.

I mean I don’t find having social qualities for which I have no real option to conceal or amplify to be a sexy thing about me. I’d rather be found sexy for things I do or things I take the time to personally enjoy about myself. I don’t court people through fame, I court people through who I think I am. Yet to be an object of affection because of prestige? Yuk, it’s nearly the most impersonal and least empathetic sexual bond anyone could ever form with me. At least being courted by my good looks is something that reflects an appreciation of my active attention to my appearance.
Kate Blackwell

When it concerns teens it’s actually called ephebophilia. That said would people even know how young Megagirl actually was before she revealed herself as Alison Green?
- phantomreader42
  
  The age range for biodynamics is pretty low, but how common knowledge is that fact?
  - chaosvii
    
    I’d imagine it’d be very common knowledge seeing as the president of the United States made an announcement basically laying out the fact that all known biodynamics were no older than 15 at the time at which the phenomenon was undeniable.
    http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-4/page-28-2/

Thraia

I just love this entire scene. Also: yay for inclusive Alison who even thinks of the non-romantics 😉
Cleaver is about the most realistic bad guy I’ve ever seen in a superhero tale, those last panels really make me feel for him.

∫Clémens×ds

I’d say “most realistic reformed criminal in a superhero tale”, considering the webcomic is smart enough to never simplify characters to either ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

Broderick Forssell

first

cyrano111

“Woman of Steel, Man of Kleenex”

Josh Jasper

Oh how I hate that stupid essay. Superman and lois lane can have *a* sex life, it’s just not going to look like Larry Niven’s typically unimaginative cis het creepy dudebro conception of what sex has to look like.
- phantomreader42
  
  It’s been a whole since I read it, but I think part of the emphasis on PIV sex was because Superman is known as “The Last Son of Krypton”, which raises the question of reproduction.
  - Tylikcat
    
    Yeah, that’s likely.
    
    Oh, wait, comics.

Philip Bourque

The fact that she’s not certain suggests that’s she’s never googled herself. I’m certain that there is no shortage of art and stories written about her on the internet that she would no doubt find disturbing. Sometimes you just stumble on things on the internet and you really, really wish you hadn’t.

Burke

She may have been aware enough of the likelihood to consciously not google herself, for that exact reason.
Tylikcat

Pint-Size googled her. Early on. And then told her less about it than he knew, but substantially more about it than she wanted to know.

Pol Subanajouy

I think we all knew that Cleaver felt that way, but for him to say it out loud is a big step for the character.

Do I dream of a nice and tidy reformation? Nah. Not the tone of this story. But him admitting that he doesn’t want to hurt anyone is a big deal. It’s obvious that hurting others was all he thought he could do in this life.

I mean, how would react if your hands literally turned into knives and your body gave you constant pain and invulnerability? I know my perspective would certainly get wrecked something fierce.

Ben Posin

This has been a great series of pages. I like that it looks like this won’t be a one sided relationship—Alison isn’t just here to cheer up or, I don’t know, civilize? Daniel. When she first visited him she wanted him to know that there was someone out there who in part understood what his life was like, living in what to them is a paper world. But that works both ways, and I love that she seems to be about to lean on him a bit here.

screechfox

I wonder how long these visits have been happening. They certainly seem friendly enough, and you can tell that even though he’s kind of crass, he does care.

I love that the line all that time ago has been expanded and not just left, and used in this way, as well.

Some guy

“Believe me Alison, I know. I went through puberty with goddamn sword hands. It was not a fun time!”

Jerden

Good thing he has regeneration!
- Seer of Trope
  
  Bad thing he would want to do it again!

JohnTomato

Death by Snu-snu.

Otakusensei

I am loving every bit of this.

Leslee Bottomley Beldotti

I confess that I’m a little confused as to what is going on in these scenes regarding the food. Is she literally shoving that entire ham into his mouth? How does he eat when she’s not there?

chaosvii

Forklifts? Robots attached to the ceiling?

Stuurminator

The second he asked that question last strip, I suspected he was trying to live vicariously through her.

Zmm

They really are so suited for eachothers friendship. So much overlap.
if he wasn’t dying and gained the ability to be less slicy..I would be tempted to ship.

poor guy……….

Jerden

Practically never stops shipping! I ship Cleavison 4ever!

Kate Blackwell

The “I mean, not of course…” line comes off kind of forced, like she just wants to rub in how PC she is. Though suppose that is kind of her character so maybe it fits after all.

Edward L. Howell

> like she just wants to rub in how PC she is

People in my experience are not politically correct because of a holier than thou attitude, or a sense of superiority as many would have you believe. It’s empathy, its understanding that complexity exists, it’s inclusiveness.
Izo

I don’t see how that’s PC to say that she realizes that some people might NOT be interested in sex. It just means she is trying to not make broad, sweeping generalizations.

bta

Cleaver: Looks like Doomsday, feels like Ben Grimm.

gray-haired grad

Speechless. Brava, m’lady.

Dean

remember, that one night stand that sold the story to the tabloid? (Gods
I hope I’m not remembering some other comic)
You’re remembering some other comic. It might be Ultra, by the Luna Brothers, maybe?

Santiago Tórtora

Ally is learning to control the telekinetic field that gives her invincibility. She can already fly without hurting herself so it’s possible that she can eventually learn to turn off her strength and invincibility at will.

Izo

Haha, thanks! (but I’m still going to post 🙂 )

“Alison’s comment is more reflective of her upbringing and personality than it is a blanket statement that everyone is a pervert or a pedophile or both.” – exactly.

Alison does NOT think most of the world are pedophiliac perverts. But she is in the public eye, knows that a lot of guys have likely viewed her as a sex fantasy since she was 14, and it makes her uncomfortable. This is just how the internet and media ARE. That’s just Rule 34. Especially with superheroes. Supergirl is generally depicted as being between 15 and 17. Wonder Girl is 16. There’s probably a lot of Rule 34 on even pre-teens like Molly Hayes or members of the Power Pack. Alison’s just being realistic about that possibility, and that the thought of it doesn’t exactly get her hot and bothered.

Even then, it’s not necessarily because she thinks they’re ‘pedophiles’ – but that they’re attracted to her because she’s superpowered, regardless of their age. Alison has enough trouble trying to view herself as having self-worth aside from her powers. I’m pretty sure that she doesn’t to be with someone intimately who is only with her because they’ve had fantasies about screwing the teenage superhero (even when she was as young as 14).

Btw, speaking of Alan Moore, Watchmen did a little riff on that btw, in which Rorschach apparently had a guy who got turned on from getting beaten up…. Rorschach wasnt having any of that, so Rorschach threw him down an elevator shaft.

However, she does NOT think that the answer would be to ‘run over the pawns’:

1) She tries to not make broad, sweeping generalizations – her mother and father taught her better, and her entire history on this webcomic has been about nonstop growth of how she handles how people view her and how she reacts to the world in a responsible way while still helping people when she has so much power that could be so easily abused.

2) Violence is her last resort even with people who are ACTUALLY antagonistic to her, and in fact go out of their way to be so. Do you really think she’s going to mow through people because of a generalized perceived belief? No.

Izo

I think you’re missing the point of Alison’s thought process.

She never stops thinking the pawns are important.

Agent Smith

I’m reminded of the character of Sarah Lynn from Bojack Horseman (probably the first time SFP has ever had anything in common with Bojack), who also became famous at a young age and then had trouble dealing with it when she grew up.
As she says (in her 30’s) – “I had my own fashion line when I was ten. By 20, I was packing stadiums. I get letters every day from boys telling me that I was the first girl they masturbated to. Literally, someone tells me that every day!”

chaosvii

Right, Alison doesn’t have blind faith in humanity, she merely has an optimistic view that is somewhere between “idealistic” & “not all that well thought out, but makes a couple accurate conclusions about the positives of human societies.”
A nuanced view of humanity, if you will.

One thing that comes to mind is how Patrick called Alison naive for her views on people, and another is how Alison told Daniel that one of the big factors she has behind not being the sort of queen you’re implying she could end up being is how her firm belief that people don’t deserve a tyranny simply because the tyranny is plausible but rather they deserve the freedom to actually try to help & be decent folk.
It’s not all that troubling so long as Alison has healthy social support, it’s when Alison endures the loss of everyone that could help her deal with events like cutting off a treacherous toxic friend from her life & investigating the nefarious potential of a former teammate that these sorts of views look like a significant problem to me.

Izo

I posted some stuff a day and a half ago and it hasnt shown up yet. How long does it usually take? I thought it took a lot less time.

desika

She has faith in humanity. “We’re all in this together,” right? She believes most people are basically good. That doesn’t preclude realizing that some people may behave in ways that make you personally uncomfortable.

Jared Rosenberg

Single Male Super Villain seeks Single Female, must be into knife-play, terminal illness a plus….

Glaucus

Really like the two last panels, great expressions

phantomreader42

She has definitely seen what knowing too much about what other people are thinking can do to a person. I don’t think she’d want to see it.

Tylikcat

Maybe he’s younger than all of them, making him that kind of last?

phantomreader42

Well, he was shoved in that spaceship as an infant, so that interpretation makes some sense, but Supergirl tends to look younger (although she’s a DAUGHTER)

phantomreader42

Robotic ceiling forklifts that say “Ceiling-bot is watching you masticate”?

MrSing

It seems I did sound a bit rude and presumptuous. I apologize, that was not my intend.
What I meant was that the fact that he has empathy and feels bad about his crimes make him a worse person. Feeling self pithy and remorse while continuing doing crimes are traits of an terrible and pitiable character. Regret means stopping doing action that makes you feel regret and try to make ammends for it. He has not done this up until this point, so he has not truly regretted his actions, making any emotions he might feel rather void and meaningless.

MrSing

Try reading the fanfiction young female teenager write about Justin Bieber, Benedict Chumberbatch and those guys from Supernatural, just to name a few examples. You’d be surprised how vile most of it is. And the hate that follows when famous men get a girlfriend or say they are not okay with having smut written about them is pretty on par with the stuff famous women get.