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Moonshadow going after Furnace in some situation where Alison could intervene seems like a promising ethical dilemma. He’s being a dick (and, honestly, possibly criminal). Is he being enough of a dick to justify being killed? rpenner The media loves its cray-cray darlings — until they wind up being racist or murderers. Jürgen Hubert …and that’s what would happen if GamerGate got superpowers. Well played. Ryan So basically, this part of the chapter is just “What if real life was like the internet, where people get flamed for speaking out about social issues?” The punchline is that real life actually is like this. leoboiko > flamed ooh I see what you did there Ryan (Of course, that’s the punchline to most of SFP, isn’t it? Source: xkcd) X I know this guy is supposed to be the jerk here, but he kind of has a point with the argument of, “Trial by media now has executions, it’s time to shut the hell up.” An invisible killer on the loose is already an additional deterrent for the initial crimes, and ‘get the police to take care of it quietly’ is probably the best way to handle it to begin with. Granted, furnace is coming across as a little unstable, but I feel like that’s more him being strawmanned than a fault with the position. Also: rare scene of a superhero basically saying, “DUE PROCESS, DAMNIT!” KatherineMW As of the previous comic, I thought this was just another moment of “Furnace says dumb stuff”. Now, though? Now that he’s threatening to attack and possibly murder any rape and sexual assault victims who speak out? Moonshadow’s going to make a move to take him out. Whether she’ll succeed or not is definitely still in question, but she’s going to go after him. No reason to give his shpeal this extensive of a focus otherwise. Johan That’ll definitely be a nice story. I dunno though, Moonshadow hasn’t made many mistakes so far, she might try to be more discreet now. On the other hand, she wants to confront Alison at some point. That’s the impression I have anyway, so she might go after Furnace in hope that Alison will be there to stop her. Anway, can’t wait to read what comes next XD Markus His powerset has some pretty strong advantages against hers though, the only people she’s killed that had the ability to fight back had to do so very discriminately. Johan Yup. If he suspects she’s around he can burn the whole place down, doesn’t need to see her … That’s gonna be interesting. Kittenbot Doomypants Who’s to say that isn’t exactly part of someone’s plan, though? To push Furnace to say something stupid like that? Granted, I don’t think Furnace would be smart enough to come out with a plan to draw out Moonshadow like that on his own, but that doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t manipulate him into doing it. Shino Maybe he will try to kill one such a victim, and Moonshadow will have to enlist Allison’s help to save her life? I mean, such twisted version of “superhero team-up” would fit well with the way comic handles superhero themes. Frankly, I am really stoked for the last act of this issue, since it’s building up to be some amazing stuff. Kid Chaos I still think Moonshadow will skip Furnace and move on to the next target on her list. But I’ve been wrong before… motorfirebox I dunno if Moonshadow will take a shot at him or not. It wouldn’t be in keeping with her past behavior, unless it turns out that Furnace has a history of sexual assault (which isn’t impossible). flame821 Someone who is this angry? This self-entitled, self-important and narcissistic? Who sees everyone else as ‘less than’ himself? I’d say there is an VERY strong likelihood that there is a LOT of nasty skeletons in that closet. Everything from bullying and generally abusive behavior on up. PS, I don’t think I have ever been this angry over a comic panel on the internet. Well done with the dialogue, but sweet baby jesus it pissed me off to read what that arse said. At this point I have a feeling he just shifted a lot of people’s opinions (in that world) to ‘pro’ slasher. fairportfan Remember the Comedian and Silk Spectre 1 Markus She’s been gradually deviating from her original formula since this started. motorfirebox Explain further? From what I’ve seen, she targets sex criminals (no relation to the excellent comic!) who the justice system failed to punish, and who fit a ‘type’ that the justice system regularly fails to punish. Markus She started off needing explicit evidence from the victim, intentionally isolating targets, and targeting only perps. She’s since targeted a corrupt judge, associated coconspirators, people who weren’t explicitly implicated, and taking action in situations that put her at increasingly large risk. motorfirebox It doesn’t seem to me that the story is telling us that her behavior is changing all that much. In order for change to be meaningful in a story, the story has to first solidly establish the status quo. Most of the story’s coverage of Moonshadow has been dedicated to revealing her activities and identity, piece by piece. Her first murder established what she’s doing. Her second murder further clarifies that she’s targeting not just perpetrators of sexual violence, but enablers of it. Her third murder could be seen as increasing risk-taking, but it could also be seen as establishing her combat abilities. And her fourth brings her into direct conflict with the protagonist, merging what had previously been two separate storylines. We don’t have any real evidence that she’s stopped requiring an explicit statement from the victims. That behavior was established right at the start of the story, so it makes more sense to assume she’s still doing it off-camera than to assume she’s stopped doing it just because we haven’t seen it. In terms of risk-taking, she might be doing riskier things—going from mercenaries to biodynamics—except that we don’t really have any evidence that she knew Alison was going to show up. Jack Lostthenames Warren That is the single scariest “T” logo I have ever seen. motorfirebox With a logo like that, Patrick is doing a really poor job of hiding his secret. Everyone’s going to figure out that he’s a vampire. Or a vampire hunter, I guess. One or the other, definitely. Johan You just figured out how to make this comic even cooler. Well done 🙂 Zac Caslar Buddy of mine works for the grocery store chain Safeway. He found out Safeway is owned by a diversified investmentgroup called… Cerberus. Yeah. I keep hoping he’ll find out it’s CEO is named “TIM.” Shino Um, wasn’t Templar corporation a supervillain organization in vein of Marvel’s AIM that only survived due to some weird legal catches (Templar Drones were mentioned as evil robots, and I rememeber “FBI being unable to close Templar due to technicalities” or something like this being in a speech bubble in a flashback? once). Imho, it’s probably least realistic thing in the comic – not such corp surviving, but not undergoing rapid rebranding. Or maybe I fucked up and need to reread the comic once again. brandon honestly, an evil corporation continuing to be blatantly evil even after the public knows is probably the most realistic thing in the comic Karl Panel 3: The moment when you hear something so mind-boggingly stupid that you have to close your eyes for a moment and maybe count to 10 or 100, hoping that when you open them again everything was a dream and you’re awake now and no intelligent being has uttered such nonsense. Panel 5: Damn, it wasn’t a dream. dragonus45 Of course, we can’t have him speaking to much sense so now its time to have him totally lose his shit and turn absolute strawman. In the meantime its not like anything like this isn’t totally happening. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2981515/Justice-Indian-style-Angry-mob-breaks-prison-kidnaps-man-accused-raping-student-stripping-naked-dragging-four-miles-beating-death-street.html spriteless How is he a Strawman? There are people who threaten those who speak out now, in a world without super-powers. He just went from saying things you agree with, to saying things you don’t agree with. Not everyone who agrees with you on one thing is good about everything, you know? motorfirebox I don’t think he’s a strawman at all. There are violent threats made against people who do nothing more than make videos and post them online. I’m not sure that a single incident of mob ‘justice’ is really comparable to Moonshadow, though. tofusmith He’s still *unrealistic*, of course, but mostly through the fact that fire-coming-from-his-hands means maybe people will actually be able to admit the threat. Subbak The thing is, you have to go to India to find one example of mob justice, whereas in every country in Europe or North America there are rape victims that are humilaited and pressured into staying silent. A mob (or a vigilante) taking justice into their own hands is a terrible thing, but so is the repeated silencing of victims, and one of these two actually happens a lot more than the other. Rod Wow. In country A, we have people attacking and killing alleged rapists. In country B, we have people attacking and killing alleged rape victims. People are insane. Mechwarrior Of course, what the Daily Fail isn’t reporting there (and other news sites have) is that the alleged rapist was a different race (IIRC he was from Bangladesh), making the incident more like the lynch mobs who would kill black men accused of crimes against whites in 19th and early 20th century America. This isn’t the typical outcome for rape accusations against other Hindus in India. dragonus45 Of course, this isn’t just one example of a worldwide history of vigilante violence against men accused of rape its a race issue how silly of me. Jonathon Side You got any historical examples? Jerden Except the mob is coming after the girl who made the accusation. Are you really saying that only white men rape women? I’m not a racist, but I have to disagree with that. Anyway, yay for progress! TheGonzoMD . The Daily Mail? Really? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLYGcKHeRh4 dragonus45 genetic fallacy TheGonzoMD . The Daily Mail has been spinning outright bullshit for years. So you’re going to have to bring up a source with some actual integrity if you expect people to believe you. S.I. Rosenbaum Wow, I see your Daily Mail story and raise you these Guardian stories: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/delhi-gang-rape-india-women http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/12/indian-police-gang-rape-uttar-pradesh http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/gang-rape-bus-victim-father-indian-minister-small-incident http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/02/three-arrested-india-kidnap-gang-rape-japanese-woman http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/indian-minister-rape-remark-anger-violence-women http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/02/number-rapes-reported-delhi-police enjoy. Sabriel I want to give you a mug of tea or something, because you’re fighting the good fight. Damien S. That totally justifies Furnace threatening women who step forward! (not) Also, that totally makes rape lynching as big a problem as rape apologists! (not) impishacid have you seen all the people in this same goddamn comments section expressing approval of Furnace. he’s not remotely a strawman, just worse at PR than scumbags like you. edit: oh, and at the link – good. peregon So that happened. Daniel Gore While the way he said it makes him an ass, he does have a point. If you have a superpowered person running around slitting throats of accused rapists, it is irresponsible for the media to put the accused face forward. However, the threatening manner in which he chose to present this, and making the potential victims his target instead of the media kinda nullifies the point he could have made. serenagold Oh fuck this guy. Rumble in the Tumble I guess it’s only fair. I mean, if we have a female murderer killing ~alleged~ rapists/sexual harrasers, we can have a male ~possible~ murderer ~possibly~ murdering ~alleged~ fake-rape-claimers. Yay for equality! Subbak Up next: Furnace discovers that death threats are not protected speech. Rod Um… having a superpowered male chauvinist pop up to blame (and threaten) Allison seems a little… heavy-handed, maybe? Marc Forrester Happens every day, except the superpowers are money and media influence. Andrew C. He just threatened, no, /promised/ to burn her house down for speaking out about sexual abuse…and you think that’s not heavy-handed? I’m not surprised he burns so well, considering he’s a straw man. There’s a /slightly/ more nuanced opinion that is lost in the heavy-handedness at play here: Alison is a public figure who inspires a lot of strong emotions; one of the actions that her speech might have inspired is Moonshadow’s murder; it certainly wasn’t her intent; but were Furnace able to veer away from a the ham-fisted, chauvinist, thinly-veiled MRA that he has been portrayed as he might instead be saying something along the lines of: “I think it’s time for us to re-evaluate the literal hero-worship that goes on in this country. Alison’s words, benign as their intent may have been, inspired an individual to seek out and murder someone. While the murderer’s actions are heinous and reprehensible, it’s worth considering both the culture that allows Alison’s words to inspire such evil as well as the words themselves.” AnathemaD That is a more nuanced opinion, and I don’t disagree with it, but there’s no reason or obligation for Furnace to have it. There are no rules that biodynamic individuals are intelligent, eloquent, or rational. I don’t see it him strawman. He’s a hardcore misogynistic MRA who happens to have powers instead of a keyboard. I have no doubt that people exist who, if they had the power, would do the exact same thing flame boy is doing here. This is just the real-life version of threats made by these sort of people taken to the logical extreme in a world where powers exist. It’s not exactly heavy-handed as much as a logical progression in keeping with the events in-world. Someone (with a similar, violence-is-the-answer mindset) kills accused rapists, which is something that is suggested by extremists today, and someone else kills rape accusers, which is, again, something suggested by extremists. Moonshadow and Furnace are two sides of the same coin. MDL Yes, good catch, in real life the misogynistic assholes burn down houses without making any specific threats so no one investigates the arson. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2458395/Maryville-family-driven-town-daughter-Daisy-Coleman-14-accused-football-player-rape.html Arthur Frayn Sorry Andrew C., I don’t think he’s a straw man. There are very real assholes that he is a representation of, and he is a character in a world that has let super powered individuals have been allowed to do and say whatever they like as long as they fight crime. Furnace is as much of a straw man in his world as Ted Cruz or Sara Palin are in ours. There are real ignorant idiots who are given airtime and he is one. impishacid Furnace isn’t part of the PR department like you. People like Furnace absolutely exist and this depiction isn’t hyperbolic at all. See Elilot Rodgers. Most of them just stick to internet commenting SAYING they want to do all things Furnace says here, because they aren’t literal superhumans. motorfirebox I dunno. Like I said in another comment, violent threats are made against people, here in the US, for posting feminist videos. To me it’s not a stretch to imagine that a jagoff who has for most of his life been granted the authority to impose his vision of law and order might do something like this. impishacid The only thing even SLIGHTLY unrealistic about it is how he’s as direct in the interview as most MRA internet commenters are behind the veil of anonymity – except, oh wait, he’s literally superhuman and doesn’t need to worry about the things that keep MRA internet commenters anonymous. Except Alison. gray-haired grad Furnace obviously needs to have that Templar building thrown on top of him (says the pacifist). Seastone Well…this was deeply upsetting. Considering some of the bizarre and hateful things people say about rape in the media–especially politicians and usually followed by some backtracking/PR spin–this doesn’t even strike me as particularly unbelievable. But more than it not challenging my suspension of disbelief, it felt way too much like fears I’ve faced when deciding whether or not to speak out about my assault. Well done, SFP Team. Now I need to hug my cat. strongfemaleprotagonist <3 What Huh, are you really that happy about bringing back memories of assault to a rape survivor ? Heck, you may be a writer and happy about yourself, but please. You are NOT that dicky. strongfemaleprotagonist sorry, that totally wasn’t clear! I meant to be signifying support/empathy because I was moved by what Seastone said. What Sorry for assuming and meddling, but thank you for clarifying. Seastone I took it as an empathetic gesture, not “yay we upset readers”. Thank you for the concern, though. Marc Forrester That’s a heart emote, not a smiley. AnathemaD I agree, this strikes an all too realistic note. Which for me, says, hey, you’re doing this comic thing right. But it also is maddening and kind of awful. (Which is the fault of our world, not the comic’s.) I’m sorry for what you’ve been through; I can’t relate on a personal level, but I really empathize with you, and I wish it wasn’t so hard to speak out about these things. I hope you’re doing well. e-hugs and love. llennhoff At least Moonshadow seems to do research first. Furnace basically said “if you make an accusation of rape, you are fair game to be murdered.” He gave no hint that whether the accusation was true or not had any bearing. Jerden That’s probably because he’s assuming that all accusations of rape are lies. person He’s conflating accusations of rape with hiring a free hitman. It’s not even an unjust comparison since it’s the same consequence regardless of the intent or the truth of the accusations. It’s basically everything else he says around that point that makes him a bad person. llennhoff ‘It is time to shut up’ is one message. ‘It is time to shut up or I will kill you’ is a very different message. Furthermore, what Furnace is really saying is ‘because there is a small chance that a given rapist (or accused rapist) may be murdered all women everywhere have to give up the right to defend themselves after they have been raped.’ Because Furnace isn’t saying ‘If you complain to the police, and the media report it, I will go after the media.’ He is saying ‘If you complain to the police and the media report it I will go after you.’ Mechwarrior Hopefully when Allison rearranges some of his features so that the placement of his head relative to his bum becomes the same literally as it is figuratively. Markus Yeah! Murder back the guy who thinks he’s murdering murderers. More murder is definitely the way to fix this. Mechwarrior I was actually just calling for her to slap the stupid out of him. Now granted, that possible would kill him, but it would be manslaughter at the worst. motorfirebox And you can’t spell manslaughter without laughter! At least, I can’t. I’m laughing uncontrollably right now! Potatamoto If he can actually say something like that with no repercussions, if I were Allison I would indeed be sorely tempted to break both his arms and legs. Just to make sure he was unable to make good on this threats during the current crisis, of course. tofusmith Remember that Alison’s made a few death threats, too… impishacid Ah, you’re the man from that Dril quote: “the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: ‘theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'” Alex Problem with Furnace is he sets a few houses on fire, he could burn down half a city in the process. The guy’s like a four year old with a machine gun. Mindsword2 Ironically, one of the most heroic things to do might be exactly what he is doing. We know Furnace has control of fire. But does that extend to a general heat sense? If so, he may be one of the few that can easily and quickly locate an invisible enemy by their body heat. All he needs to do is draw them towards him and eliminate the possibility its a random bystander. If that is true, then what he is effectively doing is painting a bullseye on his back while pinging all of the Stalker’s buttons. Draw them into his trap and then eliminate the threat. He uses AoE powers, so being hard to see won’t stop him. Just means more collateral damage. I doubt that’s what he’s doing. He doesn’t seem smart enough for that. But he must know the Stalker would come for him after this and this may be his best chance to stop them. TheGonzoMD . Welp, time to beat the fuck out of a “superhero”, I guess. TheGonzoMD . 1. Threatening to murder people on national television is a “little” unstable? 2. The crux of his argument is his notion that “these kinds of women” are moving from falsely accusing rape to execution. I seriously doubt he gives a damn about due process beyond that, it’s just the mask he will use to hide what is at it’s core a bigoted position. X I’m not saying he’s not handling it really badly, or even that he’s not the wrong guy to handle this. I’m saying that there’s a legitimate concern in his argument that I’m worried is going to be buried now. an avid observer I believe you’re conflating MRAs and GamerGate, which erases the nuance from the largest and most complex shit flinging contest of 2014. Classtoise Well, to be fair the Nuance is “one hates women because they aren’t men, one hates women because they aren’t men making video games” I wouldn’t call it much of a nuance 😛 that observer Two discordant mobs, each unified under unrelated goals, arguing against one another across a broad range of topics and often just yelling or harrassing one another. Add to this multiple outside agents, each twisting the discussion to fit their personal agenda. What you get is a chaotic mess. From an observational standpoint, it was absolutley fascinating. Most people don’t see that, because what most people saw was biased and simplified arguments. That was a little heavy, so to keep things light I advise you to go look up Goat Rodeo. S.I. Rosenbaum Two discordant mobs, alike in indignity Zac Caslar Yeah, because when two Anons with entirely similar names make bland non-specific arguments about how everything between a huge online “movement” of aggressors and a bare handful of individuals is basically equal because it suits their purposes to reframe it as such that’s a thing to take seriously. “This person criticized my hobby so I ddox’d her and promised I’d arranged a gang rape. Apples to apples, really.” Jürgen Hubert nailed it. Get righteously pissed for a camera, make non-specific death-threats, and then fly off to what the sane portion of reality hopes is a spectacular flame out -that’s exactly what GG would do. I have a certain respect and sympathy for Cleaver; he clearly had life dogpile him. He didn’t make the best of it, but he also doesn’t have hands so he’s kinda got a barrier to normal functioning. What’s this schmuck’s excuse? He’s angry because being born able to fly and hurl fire hasn’t made him “the Chosen God-King”? Amazing how people unworthy of respect can’t wrap their empty heads around how respect is won. Damien S. Sometimes, random superpowers strike oppressed victims. Sometimes, they strike angry white men who think they’re oppressed victims. Sabe Jones Respects is earn, not shrilly demanded! observer So lets clear something up, I wrote the previous two anon posts. I intended them as a joke. I am sorry if I confused you or anyone else by changing the name I used. I used neutral and vague language to describe GamerGate because I wanted to be as accurate as possible without being accusitory towards any named or specified individuals. It is my belief after my own direct observations, reading numerous articles and a good deal of research that the events and incidents surrounding GamerGate are incredibly complex and nuanced. It also contained horrific behavior which there is no excuse for, but that behavior does not deny the events complexity. You do not have to agree with my assesment, I am not here to persuade you. Furnace has an inflated ego, since he got powers he probably thinks the world should be delivered to him on a silver platter. Additionally, Furnace has mispurposely blamed women (in this instance, dude hates pretty much everything politically left) as the source of society’s ills. He’s a pretty effective strawman headed to his inevitable demise. If he survives hitting rock bottom is anyone’s guess, or even he hits rock bottom. Would be a hell of a twist if Furnace comes out of this comic ahead of everyone else. Zac Caslar Hey look, we’re agreeing to disagree about you not persuading me! Progress! observer and we both agree Furnace is an asshole. Guilherme Carvalho yes and yes, and also yes. Cheers for this comment. Jerden Maybe he actually thinks he’s doing the right thing. God help us all. There’s nothing more dangerous than an extremist who thinks he’s a hero. Anonymous If you are actually going to be fair, you should probably know that the majority of MRA’s are just people who want equality for men, and want to end specific social and legal injustices which they deem are too wide-spread (e.g.: Circumcision, Duluth model, child custody court unfairness, male disposability in general) Basically, if you wouldn’t call all feminists “man-hating trolls,” despite the fact that there DO exist some extremists who would qualify under that definition, then you should see why calling all MRA’s ‘people who hate women because they’re not men’ is similarly wrong. impishacid Calling it a ‘shit flinging contest’ reeeeeallly obscures a lot of what was really going on. I strongly recommend this to anyone confused by the sea lion, or even slightly buying the appealing ‘both sides are extremists taking things too far!’ bull: http://secretgamergirl.tumblr.com/post/107497869150/a-reasonably-concise-gamergate-recap Just as a heads up, it’s far, far, far worse than most people are aware of, including the vast majority of GGers – largely BECAUSE of the misinformation campaign scripts formulated by GG core. Yeah, there are actual scripts. And their headquarters is a literal den of child pornographers. Guess I’m not observing The post you’ve linked could have made a real case against GamerGate and it contains a number of decent points, but it skews the truth (in the cases where I know the facts) so hard I’m finding it difficult to believe any of it. Not to mention that without actual evidence (and no “go look it up yourself” is not evidence) how can this post hope to persuade anyone who doesn’t already agree? This post doesn’t provide a rational argument, it’s generating outrage for the people who already agree with the poster. That’s the biggest takeaway from all this, aside from any direct issue. Two great echo chambers formed and began generating and perpetuating the idea that the other side is Satan. It mirrors (and got entangled with) modern politics and can be very difficult to root out. If you want a much better explaination of this idea I suggest watching the linked video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc Classtoise Right. There are way less…if you’ll pardon the pun, “inflammatory” ways to say “Anyone who outs the accused with a superpowered serial killer puts lives at risk, especially when said killer has no regard for actual guilt or crimes committed.” He DOES have a point that it’s dangerous to make publicly broadcasted accusations, the idea that a rape victim needs to be MORE afraid of coming forward is absurd. Furnace is an ass, to say the absolute least. Classtoise If it were literally anyone else, I’d say it was a brilliant strategy. Give me a comic of Tony Stark or Johnny Storm or Peter Parker making a public statement calling out an invisible villain? Great! But Furnace hasn’t exactly shown himself to be more than the “throw fire at a problem” guy. S.I. Rosenbaum Uh, right, because Tony Stark’s solutions to geopolitical problems are real nuanced Classtoise Haha, fair enough. But I meant more the “paint a target on my back because I can fight back” strategy. Hell, that’s what Spider-Man DOES. Taunt, insult, demean, and generally just make fun of a villain so they focus on HIM. Not the money, not the hostages, not the civilians in the crossfire. But Spider-Man. Aim for the guy you can’t hit, who is definitely leading your shots away from innocents. Mindsword2 I can dream. Besides, one of the things in this comic is that everyone has some redeeming qualities so far. No one is pure evil, no one is always smart. I like to think that maybe Furnace isn’t always dumb. Badtux Actually, non-specific death threats *are* protected speech, the Supremes have ruled in a case involving a KKK leader arrested for saying something along the lines of “death to n-word lovers”. Yeah, it really was something that disgusting, but the Supremes ruled that it’s only when you’re issuing a death threat against a specific person that it is not protected speech. Anthony Jackson We also have prior examples of biodynamics threatening to kill people on national television, and the issue being ignored. Shino Yyyeah, Furnace might on a bit of an ego-trip right now. He’s no fucking Mega-Girl, he’s racist arsonist cop wannabe, and a wannabe in the ‘killing immigrants’ department, not the ‘catching criminals’ one. Ian Osmond The psychotic fundamentalist wing would already be against him because he’s a “nef”. Racist fundamentalists, who skew conservative, are anti-biodynamic already. So he’s got THAT chunk of the American public against him, too. Shino And cops don’t seem to particularly like him either… In hindsight, maybe it’s why he’s doing it? He realizes he’s nobody and hopes to become someone by nabbing first big ‘supervillain’ in a while to get such media attention? Shino Correction: Non-specific death threats are protected speech when white people saying them. Cuz there’s no fucking way in the world same verdict would be reached if e.g. some Black Panther said something in vein of “kill all white people”. I mean, fuck, KKK is probably one of the oldest terrorist organizations in the world, and it isn’t even fucking illegal. Markus Except for those several times the New Black Panther Party* has verbatim said that they believe it’s necessary to kill white children: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDb2byj74oY They’ve been jailed for voter intimidation and possession of illegal firearms, but never for any statements they’ve made. *Basically imagine if a twelve year old racist heard a thirdhand account of what the Black Panther Party was, and then his misinterpretation of a bad account were born into reality as an actual group that actually exists. They’ve been sued by the Black Panther Party over naming rights. impishacid Except the main activity of the KKK has been lynchings – their death threats aren’t impotent anger, they’re very real descriptions of what they do. The Klan has killed thousands of people, their death threats are incredibly real. The main activity of the BPP was children’s breakfast programs. Go ahead, find me five white people allegedly murdered by the BPP/NBPP, not in direct self defense. I’ll bet you can’t even do that. Markus John Frey, Betty Van Patter, Christal Gray, Lesley Whittle, John Victor Young. All that took was a cursory googling. Potatamoto But the friends or family of someone who was, say, on trial for murder would NOT be allowed to threaten to kill anyone who testified against him. Badtux Right, because that’s a specific threat against a specific set of individual people, not against a general group of people. Frankly, I think the U.S. rules about what constitutes threats are somewhat deranged, we’re the only Western country where you can threaten to kill entire classes of people with impunity, you’d be brought up on charges in Canada or Norway or Germany or France and I haven’t noticed those nations are fascist dictatorships (heck, I’ve been to Canada, nice place, nice people, very laid back feel). But those are the rules we operate under. And yes, they ignored it when Allison previously did it, but then, there’s a lot of crimes that get ignored when it is a cop (or once-somwhat-a-cop) that does it. If you have cop friends, ask them how many speeding tickets they’ve gotten recently :). Subbak Also, Allison was credibly upset about a terrorist trying to kill her friend, not intentionally making a televised statement in cold blood. Even if she could have been brought to trial, the judge would probably have been lenient. Subbak Wow… The US is even crazier than I thought it was. I knew that racial slurs were protected speech there (which sounds stupid to me, but hey, different values), but I didn’t realize actually calling for a genocide also was. MrSing But April Fools isn’t until like another month. Ryan Furnace is a fool 12 months out of every year. ampg I take it you’re unfamiliar with MRA rhetoric. The dialogue in Panel 3 could be a direct quote from their adherents (well, except for the killer on the loose part). Stephanie Gertsch I love Alison’s expression in panel three. It’s like she’s thinking “Too…Much…Stupid. Cannot compute…” That’s my internet face. Classtoise “I can literally rip an entire oil tanker in half with my bare hands, and even I struggle under the weight of that much stupid”. Someone So, Furnace just threatened Allison? I guess he overlooked something … And Furnace would be better off threatening the media, not the girls reporting at a police station. Because the invisible Slasher’s watching the news, not police stations. Kira protocols, basically: Don’t show (alleged) criminals on the news or the net! Lostman well things are going south fast… at this the rate the inmates are going to be running the asylum, say what you about those running the government or society in general but it’s a real achievement to make things progress worse. K25fF There are levels of things that won’t solve problems, and this is an impressive new height for “won’t solve problems”. Damien S. It solves the problem of not having enough problems! 🙂 Jerden You can never have enough problems! Opus the Poet Maybe some Internet hugs would be a better choice? ((())) Emmy Little-known fact: Furnace flies by lighting his own farts. MrSing It’s eco-friendly! Rafinius How is burning impurity-laden methane gas for duel eco-friendly? Kid Chaos He’s just making Global Warming worse…actually, everything he does makes things worse! Moonshadow should totally kill this guy. 😉 Gryphonic But this IS ratings gold, from the perspective of the broadcast company. Ugh. Third Now, as some have pointed out, it could be a ploy to make him the fall man and get Moonshadow to attack him. That I can see working and while it makes him look bad publicly, it’ll nip this in the bag rather quickly … but I’ll believe that when I see it If there’s no plan here though… you’re not wrong, Furance, you’re just an a-hole. He’s absolutely correct to try and dissuade people from making accusations with the knowledge that it could get the accused killed. But, he goes about it in the most threatening and macho way that’s liable to just tick off people. Good intentions; absolutely wrong way to present it. Isn’t that life. S.I. Rosenbaum they love them more when they wind up being racists or murderers S.I. Rosenbaum Not to mention that India has a rape culture that makes the US look like a lesbian seperatist colony dragonus45 Only one example? I could post these all day. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314178/Emma-Hall-Baby-faced-woman-21-jailed-15-years-leading-vigilante-gang-kill-wrongly-accused-rape-suspect.html Shino Also, you know. He’s essentially doing the same thing except targeting immigrants instead of rapists? Shino Criminal? He’s a murderer (tbh everyone in comment section forgetting that Furnace was implied to be targeting and murdering immigrants is depressingly reminiscent of the real world where people very quickly forget deaths of people who are disprivileged). I don’t exactly understand how he DOESN’T deserve to die. Anthony Jackson I think you’re overreading the evidence; that’s discussed in all of one panel by someone who may not be an objective witness. Damien S. I don’t think I forgot that so much as never picked up that inference in the first place. Shino Issue 1, at the rally, protesters yell at Furnace. Pol Subanajouy Oh just bloody brilliant Furnace. AvangionQ Fall of a flawed hero? Considering his history, not so sure he was a hero to begin with … If this follows the lines of the classic tragedy, I’d predict that Alison catches Furnace soon, probably in the act of fulfilling his `promise`, and takes Furnace alive before Moonshadow is able to get to him, with a cutaway frame showing Moonshadow was somewhere nearby the battle. Later on, Moonshadow finishes the job in prison, sneaking in and out with her usual ghost assassin style, forcing a final confrontation between Alison and Moonshadow, after Alison reaches out for some help to locate Moonshadow … Should be interesting to see if anything I just said comes true … 😉 PS, on this issue, I understand the need for justice and not vengeance, and I’m just hoping this won’t turn out into an allegory of the Men’s Rights Movement, as that would just be burning down a strawman argument … impishacid It’s not remotely a strawman. As MDL pointed out above, people burning down the houses of victims/survivors is a thing that actually happens: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2458395/Maryville-family-driven-town-daughter-Daisy-Coleman-14-accused-football-player-rape.html Also see Elliot Rodgers. Furnace is basically him with superpowers. AvangionQ Well, shit … that actually happened? There’s enough hate in the world to cause incidents like that to spread, just glad it didn’t start any fucked up trends … The thing about strawman arguments, they can still exist if you’re not addressing the best version of your opponents arguments, to rebut each one of their points with contradictory evidence. For this sort of incident, the correct reply would be: one instance does not make a pattern, but since there have been at least three such instances in the last few years ~ well, at least three that I found with a simple Google search … Also, Elliot Rodgers was just a murderer with some serious issues towards women. If you’re using him as an example of what a MRA member is, that would be a strawman argument, as there are extremists in almost every group. The path towards gender equality seems a rocky one … motorfirebox Mmm. At the current rate, an actual rapist in SFPworld has significantly less chance of being killed by Moonshadow than a non-rapist has of being falsely accused of rape. Someone who is at risk of being killed by Moonshadow probably has a better chance of dropping dead of a heart attack. Nomac For once, I actually empathize with Furnace. While we always think of people prone to violence as a-holes, this guy has a point and is willing to defend it. If he hadn’t spoken up now, I imagine a lot of women would’ve taken to the news in the hopes that the slasher would kill men for them. And while perhaps some of these might be legitimate, Furnace is thinking of the worst-case scenario where really nasty women lie about getting raped just to off men in their lives, and I agree with his stance in that regard. Timothy O’Brien The whole “superheroes are a democraticizing force in a new world” theory is kind of getting reinforced in the worst possible way here… Ian Osmond Actually, the word for people who want equality for men like that is “feminists.” Seriously. Classtoise The problem is Feminism did not stem from hatred or intolerance. Feminists WANT equality for men. They want men to be able to take paternity leave, or (and this actually happened) to change the wording of the definition of rape so that men can be considered victims of rape instead of “sexual misconduct” (Yes, until 2012, men simply could not be raped. The law as it was on the books said women. Not “person” like it does not). Feminism is about men and women being equal. The problem is women are farther down the chain than men. So whereas you see an indignity in now allowing men to be stay-at-home dads or to get their kids in a custody battle, there are feminists going “Yes, we’ll get to that, just as soon as being ‘girly’ is seen as bad, rape victims aren’t treated like sluts, and condoms and birth control both cost about a buck in a vending machine.” It’s a matter of complaining that they got a larger glass with far less water in it. Kid Chaos So, Furnace is making a direct threat against Alison? He’s even crazier than I thought. Steele I don’t think he was threatening Allison… he was threatening ALL women who make a “false” rape accusation (ie, any accusation, in his mind). Kid Chaos Like I said, he’s crazy. 🙁 Jerden I think he’s just threatening the female population generally. Not Alison. MisterTeatime I try very hard not to make blanket statements, because the world is a big and complicated place… but when you earnestly refer to unarmed human beings as “legitimate targets” for anything more dangerous than a water balloon, it is a safe bet that you have lost the moral high ground. Iarei The point that “vilifying someone in the media can bring them harm” would be a point better made by someone not presently vilifying someone in the media. There are just SO MANY layers to this asshole sandwich. Potatamoto I agree with all of that, but on the matter at hand, I’d say my point stands firm where Easy Bake here is concerned. Because ‘accusers of rape’ are not a general group of people, they’re specific people who have done a specific thing. If you can’t threaten a single person you don’t know for making an accusation, even if you don’t know, specifically, who that person is, you can’t threaten a whole bunch of people who make an accusation. Jonathon Side “Basically, if you wouldn’t call all feminists “man-hating trolls,” despite the fact that there DO exist some extremists who would qualify under that definition, then you should see why calling all MRA’s ‘people who hate women because they’re not men’ is similarly wrong.” Maybe not all, but the ones ending up in the articles and the ones making the most noise? (Well, the ones I’ve seen anyways) They either clearly hate women, or blame women (or feminists) for their own crappy lives, or they understand that they themselves are creepy jerks, but they have just enough cunning and awareness how to turn it around on the women they target. “I’m not stalking you, I’m not stalking you…” There are legitimate grievances, too, but there are a LOT of idiots making some really stupid claims as well. Shino So how do you explain this? http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/how-to-use-affirmative-consent-to-destroy-campus-feminists-in-california/ I don’t exactly see how advocating for destroying lives of feminists via use of false rape accusations, of all things (don’t you guys usually say this is a serious problem?) is in any way okay? And this isn’t some random fedoralover777.blogspot.com, this is fucking A Voice For Men, like the single biggest MRA site. Jonathon Side I think you’ve somehow confused me for an MRA. I thought I made it pretty clear I thought a lot of MRAs were jackasses? EveryZig >Due Process Accused rapists are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, accusers of rapists are guilty until proven innocent of malicious lying (now with bonus murderous intent!). No double standards here, no siree! >Furnace vs Moonshadow Really he only has a chance if his powers give him super senses or if Moonshadow fights him on his terms. Otherwise, Moosnshadow can just walk up and shoot him with a gun. impishacid oh it’s one of the PR sea lions. Nah, the majority of MRAs are EXACTLY like Furnace here: they think that 99% of allegations of rape and abuse are lies, they want definitions of rape and abuse dramatically rolled back to legalize most rape and abuse, and they see anyone who disagrees as a mouthpiece of a vast evil feminist/”SJW” conspiracy which controls the media, and killing said people is striking a heroic blow for ~freedom~ (to rape and abuse women). It’s bitterly ironic that you mention child custody, since this is another area where the MRA agenda has things completely backwards, and their fight for ‘equality’ has pushed things even further to support the bias against women. Yes, usually women get primary/sole custody! Because, overwhelmingly, men don’t want it, and voluntarily give it up in exchange for other concessions. When parents ACTUALLY DISPUTE CUSTODY IN COURT, and both fight for it, courts overwhelmingly favor men – 70% of sole custody rulings give custody to the father, 30% to the mother. see https://debunkingmras.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/debunking-the-mens-rights-movement-x/ for sources. It’s also blatantly obvious when you mention the Duluth Model. For those who don’t know what the Duluth Model is: “A community using the Duluth Model approach: *Has taken the blame off the victim and placed the accountability for abuse on the offender. *Has shared policies and procedures for holding offenders accountable and keeping victims safe across all agencies in the criminal and civil justice systems from 911 to the courts. *Prioritizes the voices and experiences of women who experience battering in the creation of those policies and procedures. *Believes that battering is a pattern of actions used to intentionally control or dominate an intimate partner and actively works to change societal conditions that support men’s use of tactics of power and control over women. *Offers change opportunities for offenders through court-ordered educational groups for batterers. *Has ongoing discussions between criminal and civil justice agencies, community members and victims to close gaps and improve the community’s response to battering.” impishacid Ah yes, every single victim/survivor of rape being murdered if they speak up about it is a totally valid “point”. Die in a fire! Daniel Gore Someone having a point isn’t the same as them being right. Serial killer or not, it is irresponsible of the media to plaster the name and face of accused criminals across every channel. And the boy who was murdered, he didn’t rape anyone (as far as we know) and he might not have raped anyone even if no one was around to stop him. We don’t know. And now he is dead because a video got posted of the incident and the media ran wild with it. I don’t know why you choose to read my comment in the most negative light you could, but just remember, your passion doesn’t put you in the right. While I know your “Die in a fire!” isn’t a legitimate threat, it makes me sad that people like you take it on yourself to be the vanguard of the victims of the world. Bananarama Until they catch the serial killer murdering people? I don’t think that’s so unreasonable. I think Furnace threatening them is unreasonable, but frankly I really hope this arc ends with someone innocent getting killed, because otherwise I might have to stop reading for a while. impishacid Ah yes, it’s heroic to tell all rape victims/survivors that he’ll murder them if they speak out (and all rapists / wannabe-rapists that he’ll literally murder thier targets if they dare speak out!) Conversely, murdering RAPISTS is an unforgivable crime that can only be punished by death. Die in a fire! Mindsword2 Not what I said. The heroic thing is attempting to get the killer to target him. If he followed through on those threats, I’d put him at villain status right away. But no matter what Moonshadow’s intentions were, she is still killing people. The law exists for a reason. I hate how my argument could be used to say that Moonshadow is evil. Her targets are so far probably all bastards that deserve to pay, but this is murder. I once played a Town of Salem game where the Mayor declared their role on day 2. the jailor was dead. No one could save them. However, they knew this, drawing the enemy into attacking them, ultimately killing 2 evil people and allowing their side to win. I had hoped Furnace was acting like that. Jerden I really don’t think they are. How about “some” MRA’s are just people who want equality. Although it wouldn’t be the first time that the most unpleasant members of a group are the only ones to get noticed. Alex I can think of another more accurate name for this guy: Flaming ass****. Shino Um, nevermind. Sorry. My mind wasn’t most focused then and I must’ve skimmed your comment WAY too fast than I should’ve, which should be a lesson for me for the future. Apologies. Jonathon Side No worries. Thought maybe you’d meant it for the guy I’d replied to. 🙂 Avery Funny how Furnace doesn’t realize he’s a hypocrite because, you know, he killed those migrant workers just for being Latinx. Also: *tips flames* M’accomplice. Umi ….shit’s too real. Scar Man!!! I’m starting to agree with the guy a few chapters earlier who said that biodynamics are getting special treatment by the government. Neither Furnace nor Allison have been brought in despite the numerous counts of making death threats and committing outright assault that both of them have accrued.