How exactly is that an excuse for that what she did isn’t totally evil?

The general concept of superhero ethics is the Spider-Man ‘with great power comes great responsibility.’ With Alison it’s ‘With great power comes me being able to do whatever I want and no one can stop me’. You could add a villainous laugh afterwards and you’d have Darkseid or Dr. Doom.

One thing you said there emphasizes just what we’re getting at.

“Apart from Darkseid, who is evil for the sake of being evil, all of them are not completely evil, and in the beginning, their choice are questionable but understandable.”

And that is true. That is just like Alison. When she was Mega-Girl, her violent actions were justified – she was fighting a terrorist organization and doing what she could, despite having no proper training or support by a military-industrial complex that promoted this to distract from their own actions. Then when she realized the terrorist leader had a valid point AND he was quitting because he’d realized their conflict was pointless, she was justified in working with him instead of dragging him off to jail. When she locked that anthro rat biodynamic in a dumpster it was less so – more like a bad cop. But then when she threatened that crowd outside the hospital she was both justifiably pissed and looking to do something about a hate group that had just murdered a bunch of doctors and nurses to prevent someone from saving lives.

When she throttled that guy at the party, everyone called her out on it. Then she tried to argue with Moonshadow because she wasn’t quite over the line yet. Then… she did what she did to Max. She’s hovering on the edge of that “slippery slope.” She HAS been doing evil, and she IS turning into “evil Superman” or Doctor Doom. Hopefully she’ll turn back before its too late.

(Incidentally, Star Wars talks about how a Sith becomes pure evil. They start good, and then they go down a road of good intentions to… well, look at Anakin. From well intentioned hero of the Republic, to… child murdering zealot, to… Darth Vader)

What she did to Max was evil. Yes. Just.. yes.

“But she had not said to herself. She said to Max.”

.. How on Earth is that BETTER? That’s WORSE. That shows both abusing power and a total lack of introspection when doing something evil.

“It does not meam :”From now on i’ll impose whatever whim i have with my power”, it means”If in the future i should find myself in the same set of crcumstances, i’ll act the same.”.”

Act the same, as in ‘I will impose whatever whim I have with my power’ AGAIN.

“Anyway, you made some interesting examples. Apart from Darkseid, who is evil for the sake of being evil, all of them are not completely evil, and in the beginning, their choice are questionable but understandable:Regime ”

Are you seriously arguing that Victor von Doom is not evil? Victor von Doom. Who was tried for Crimes against Humanity…. is not evil…?

Even better… you’re arguing that Black Adam is not evil? He murders 3 million innocent civilians, various superheroes and superheroines, and causes World War 3.

“Superman’s killing of the Joker is all but understandable, and ruling with an iron fist some war-ravaged and misery-stricken land is a sad necessity of politics.”

It wasn’t ‘some war-ravaged and misery-stricken land’ – it was the entire planet Earth and every man, woman, and child on the planet. And anyone who disobeyed him, even if not criminals, were arrested or killed. Ask Billy Batson. Oh wait, he had his face heat visioned off because he didn’t think that Superman should destroy Gotham City and Metropolis since people there didn’t want to be ruled by him. Silly Billy.

Superman in Injustice was so bad that Sinestro thought he had a perfect society that should be emulated on Korugar. Sinestro. Yeah. Sinestro is evil.

Hell his name is g.d. SINESTRO. 🙂

“But still they are villains, i agree… what makes them so? They do not know when to stop.”

Okay – happy that you do realize they are villains at least. Here’s the thing though – they don’t know when to stop because they have no reason to stop. They have unfettered might and think there is no one to oppose them. Sound like someone familiar in this comic recently? Cleaver before his realization? Okay. But even moreso Alison …. pretty much every time she abuses her powers – especially during the Max incident. She said so to the entire crowd, and to the police officer. She even admits to Max, point blank, that if she wants to do it again, that no one can stop her. She taunts that he will do what she wants entirely BECAUSE no one can stop her and he won’t be able to even turn to anyone to help him against her. And he definitely couldnt do anything to her personally. I’d make the rapist mentality analogy again, but it’s been a while and everything I’ve ever said about that has been said months ago, ad nauseum.

Simply put, Alison has displayed the mentality of a villain because she does NOT know when to stop. She’s already passed the point of when she should have stopped.

“They refuse to accept any contradictions in their behaviour, no matter how small, and they go straight until the end.”

Alison doesn’t accept the contradictions in her behavior either. She’s running a center to help abuse victims, but she’s a victimizer who has abused people who are innocent of wrongdoing. It’s hypocritical to an absurd degree, to the point where I have to assume the irony is on purpose by the writer (which is a pretty good example of irony actually).

“Fortunately, Alison is not like them. She is not a kryptonian, despite pratically having the power of one.”

She effectively IS an ersatz superman. Except Superman at least had actual weaknesses – red solar radiation, kryptonite, magic. There’s no magic in this world though, far as I know, and she doesn’t have a kryptonite weakness, and her powers are just from…. wherever biodynamic powers are from – not the sun. So she’s actually worse than Superman, while having the same mentality that Injustice superman had.

Read the Injustice comics btw – you’ll see there’s a scary amount of self-rationalization by Superman about how what he’s doing is the right thing. A lot of pure utilitarian thinking as well as ‘no one can stop me anyway.’ It gets even worse in Injustice 2 the video game (awesome game btw).

“Like most of us, she can live with an imperfect code of morality, one that applies for almost any situation, with some very specific exeptions.”

Most of us actually have to deal with the consequences of our actions if we do something bad. Or at least have to worry about the risk if we don’t get away with something bad. She doesn’t have to. This makes the need for her to actually adhere to a code of morality which respects OTHER people’s freedom all the more important, since there’s no way to stop her.

“Only a Sith deals in absolute.”

It’s funny you mention the Sith, because Alison actually does use the rationalization OF a Sith. She has great power, and with that great power, she can impose order on the masses as she sees fit, regardless of if they agree with her version of ‘order’ or not. Sounds like the rationalization of Darth Sidious to me (hope I spelled that right).

Psycho? Nutjob? What the heck? I responded to your post. No namecalling in it. I just refuted what you were saying where I disagreed, and you don’t seem to be able to deal with it without getting aggressive. That’s unsettling.

Yeah… we’ve been over this one before. It’s been pointed out how his exact words were that he would say no specifically to her, as long as it was her, and not someone else who could be a decent person towards him. And how she specifically made it clear she would have stopped Feral from even getting on that table if she could have. (Translation: the “uncountable” lives – that others have actually tallied up – were a secondary consideration, and even Alison later admitted she was totally in the wrong for what she did to him)

But of course we like her, we don’t like him, therefore we need to minimize the kidnapping, assault, torture, and death threats as “excessive force” against someone who we’ll paint as a horrible person to justify it. And emphasize that this was THE RIGHT THING! Even though what’s going to be coming down on Alison and her friends as a result of her “excessive force against an “absolute shit of a person” wouldn’t be happening if she had shown him the empathy and consideration she demanded he show for his ex-girlfriend’s friend.

If you’re going to cherry pick and declare that any statement he gave that doesn’t support your position was “probably him lying,” then that’s just further victim blaming. Not to mention that people don’t act without a motive: what would he have to gain by saying “it’ll always be no to you, as long as it’s you doing the asking?”

He didn’t “abandon his arguments” because she challenged them. He “abandoned his arguments” because she kidnapped him, tortured him, and threatened to murder him (with the emphasis of “And I’ll get away with it so haha I’m above the law”). If you make a moral stance and then I start violently assaulting you until you tearfully do what I want, that doesn’t mean you abandoned a thing – it just means I’m an abusive monster.

And to top it off, Max’s “sins” are anything but. Right now YOU are responsible for so much evil in the world, by that argument. You’re using modern technology to type up a response while living a luxuriously comfortable lifestyle compared to that of 99% of humanity that has ever lived. According to that logic, right now you should be donating your electronic appliances to the less fortunate, sharing your clothing with those in need, and sharing your money with those who want it. And if you don’t, then you deserve to have it taken by force and with violence and contempt.

The fact that Max could have done useful things with his powers doesn’t mean a damned thing, not when he was afraid of what would happen if people knew about his powers. Not when Alison PROVED his fears to be thoroughly grounded when she, a presumably moral person, immediately treated him like a Bioshock player choosing to harvest the Little Sisters. And calling him selfish for balking is the mindset of a mugger. “I want it, therefore I deserve it, and I’m justified in being vicious about taking it because you’re selfish for not sharing it the moment I asked!”

(And if you’re going to respond to this, then answer the question: what could he have hoped to gain by lying? Nobody acts without a motive… so what was his motive?)

I don’t think it’s a call for ideological purity that’s been asked for, bur rather not being hypocritical.

I don’t consider myself ‘ideologically pure’ either, but I can say that I havent ever threatened to murder anyone or tortured them because they disagreed with me. I use my words instead when someone disagrees with me. Never bother to put them in an armlock and threaten to kill them if they don’t do what you want them to do. And if I did something like that, I might feel a twinge of guilt at the hypocrisy of my giving a speech about how great I am and heroic I am as I open a non-profit dedicated to helping people who have been hurt and threatened and abused by other people.

Frankly, given Alison’s ideology, I’m not sure that ideological purity would be a good thing, since her ideology, at least based on the gurwara class, is the ideology of a fascist.