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Today we learned that Alison is the biggest pot, class dismissed! Manuel Simone Please, please, please, Allison, give Brad a chance, he’ll be a really good man for you if you decided to make a couple (I’m someone who always loved Beauty and the beast story and doesn’t care about people looks). Allison, stop looking after hot guys, cause they’re not good for you, and pay attention to what you have right next to you. Tylikcat 1) I suspect that Brad spent way too much time around Alison when they were both in their early teens (and probably vice versa) to be interested. It sounds like she was not super appealing right then. Mind you, I am all in favor of more Brad, because Brad is clearly awesome. 2) Hello?!! Can we NOT have yet another cute girl goes after the non-standardly attractive guy retelling of Beauty and the Beast? Because really? So, so, done, and do we need to feed those particular gendered archetypes anymore? If anyone non-standardly attractive people are getting awesome mates, I want the story to be about Amanda. All in favor? (Though “Amanda finds happiness through something else other than love and then gets hooked up more or less by accident,” would be just awesome – because women’s lives don’t revolve around romance, y’know?”) Manuel Simone Amanda is the super-nice fish lady, if I’m not wrong? So, you’re in the favor of Amanda/Allison couple or you want for her to find a attractive man for a different retelling of Beauty and the Beast? Tylikcat For all that I’m fairly generically in favor of same sex couples (especially female ones) in this particular case, I think a male partner would be more subversive – I mean, seriously “Oh, she’s ugly – but hey, that’s okay, she’s lesbian!” reinforces rather than subverts tropes for a mainstream audience. Whereas the expectation that any female character be conventionally sexy to the standards of an average young straight white male is one of the most horrid things ever. This came up in comments some pages back – it’s quite rare to find a gender flipped beauty and the beast. Izo I never even thought of that, but it does make for an excellent trope subversion! Nebty I’m super in favour of more same-sex pairings but hasn’t Alison pretty definitively said she’s not into girls? Plus if she was into girls then why wouldn’t she be into Feral? :'( Giacomo Bandini Well, it’s pretty common for a fish person to get “hooked”. (I’m sorry. I know, i’m an horrible person… but i can never resist a bad wordplay joke) Pizkie Speaking of, why do we have so few Beast and the Beast stories? Why must all stories about a non-conventionally attractive person include a hottie who has to work to overlook the other person’s apperance? Is it because no one could ever be expected to empathize with an ugly person, or because an ugly girl is just inconceivable as anything but a side character? chaosvii I’m kind of sick of every comment section reacting to genuine respect & friendship with “OMG See?! Romance in the works! Gotta have romance even when no attraction has been indicated. This character’s life is not complete without romance and I say that as a person that is in no way brainwashed into thinking that if I had a group of loyal friends but never married then my life would be miserable! Shipitshipitshipit!” bta Hey! Hot guys aren’t all bad! Well, one of them was a bigot who ended up literally exploding at her, but my point still stands. Manuel Simone They’re two hot guys so far who were assholes, the former supervillain who continued to commit crimes to prove something that only he know what it is to Allison and the other one loves to tell people do what he wants and judged Allison’s friend. So, either I can see a Brad/Allison couple or Allison being alone because you don’t always need a love story to be awesome. Walter uh, he’s some kind of aardvark person. I don’t think he’s what she’s looking for. M. Alan Thomas II Star-nosed mole (nose) crossed with a sword-nosed bat (ears), looks like. I personally don’t see the objection unless you assume that all women only want conventionally attractive men, although there are plenty of OOC reasons for avoiding that particularly plotline. Pizkie Why do you think Brad is interested in her? M. Alan Thomas II Clearly the only reason a man would ever be nice to or friends with a woman was if he was interested in sleeping with her, which is why friendship must always be repaid with sex. /s Happyroach Honestly? After what’s happened this week, even the mention of shipping makes me flinch. The Wealthy Aardvark I’m glad we’re getting to see more of Brad’s character. ∫Clémens×ds Oh my God, Alison is becoming… *self-reflecting*? Bring back the webcomic I knew and loved In all seriousness is it only jarring to me that we got the follow-up to that plot coming right after a 5-or-so pages deviation, resuming right where we left it without ceremony? On the one hand I applaud getting to the point, on the other it makes Max’s plot even more ill-advised than dating him already was. Lostman The power of flight! Dean Panel 3 Brad is shipping Alison and Amanda so hard, you guys. bta I wonder how Tara/Feral would take the new if she ever heard these two were dating. Izo What would Alison and Clevin be? Alevin? Sounds too much like 11. JohnTomato Brad has to have some mighty fine filters. The ability to ignore so many while keeping track of a few. Could be a super power unto itself. M. Alan Thomas II You’ve never recognized the voice of a friend or family member in a crowd? And presumably tracking his teammates’ locations and conditions by listening to their vital signs is something he picked up while fighting alongside them for years (an undoubtedly noisy activity). screechfox Aw, that’s sweet. I love the lovely wistful sense to the framing and colours, and the first panel is probably one of my favourite panels in this comic. Dartangn Hang on, when did Allison have rage issues? She’s always been pretty restrained for the most part. Is she really referring to her TV incident as in the same neck of the woods? CalvinCopyright Keeping herself restrained is the thing. When she talked with Cleaver, she talked about fantasies of killing bad people – “Showing up to Klan rallies with a I-beam” sort of thing. Then she lost it a little when ‘organ donor girl’ got attacked. So yes, anger issues. Lostman But that becoming harder, and harder as the world (people) push her. It’s something that it’s seemed that she was born with as seeing the flashbacks in iusse 4, and have been made greater in her superhero career which promotes aggressive thinking. Add in made to realize that all she has done is for nothing which caused her to become disillusion, and quit being a superhero. So now she trying to be mornal, and go to college… which hasn’t been going well due to Alison career as Mega Girl. This along with a few other things is why I agree with the teacher when he said that Alison is tyrannian. She know’s one way to get her point across (along with empathy in a few cases), and that is force/violence. That due to being what amounts to military service in her teen years, and that has shaped her thought process. If I had call Alison ideological mind set is progressive with a authoritarian bent to it. Alison isn’t a tyrannian now, but she leaning towards being so. Now going back the last panel comment section, a lot of commantors wanted Alison to kill Max. Think about that for a moment. Santiago Tórtora The guy who attacked the organ donor girl was literally setting the hospital, the doctors, the nurses and Allison on fire. Killing him was the correct cold-blooded choice, not an anger management issue. As for showing up to Klan rallies with a I-beam, that is a fairly common fantasy. Videogames where you kill Nazis by the truckload are very popular. Beroli I don’t think she’s saying “I have fantasies no one else has.” I think she’s saying, “I have fantasies a lot of other people have, and unlike all those other people I need to find reasons not to actualize them, as ‘not actually possible’ isn’t there.” Arkone Axon I agree… except that Alison wasn’t doing it as a cold blooded rational choice, she was doing it because “you just murdered a bunch of doctors and nurses in order to try to kill someone who was TRYING to make up for the stuff you hate her for!!!” (three exclamation points to illustrate just how pissed Alison was) Upvoting your comment anyway because you’re absolutely correct about it being the right thing to do; just noting that she didn’t do it as a rational decision but rather as an emotional one. When your former archnemesis has to talk you out of treating the mob of fellow haters like potato chips (can’t stop at just one!) you know you’ve got anger management issues. screechfox I think it’s referring to the conversation she had with Cleaver/Daniel originally, about how she loves fighting things. I can’t remember the exact lines, but it definitely alludes to that, in my brain. EDIT: “I love fighting. I love the blood, I love the heat, I love breaking shit. It’s the only thing I’ve ever been good at and the fact that it never makes anything better just fucking kills me.” That’s at the end of her fight with him. I know she’s been trying to get out of that mindset, from what I’ve seen, but even so. That’s a lot of rage. David You really need to re-read the comic. “I don’t think you understand.” “There’s nothing you can do to me!” “You should all die! You all deserve to die!” “Now do what I fucking say, or I’m going to kill every last one of you!” bta How “restrained” she is is kind of an interesting debate by itself. People have already pointed out that she has a lot less to lose in confrontations or altruism and that it’s difficult to consider her actually more altruistic or courageous than other people without her powers. But logically the logic applies in reverse – as she remarked herself much earlier in the comic, it’s a lot easier to be peaceful when you’re not constantly one backhand away from killing someone. Arkone Axon She actually has a great deal to lose, just not physically. She wants to relate to people. She wants to help people. And she lives in a world made of cardboard, to quote another flying brick. While I completely agree with Gurwara’s teaching methods for the most part (though he really should have emphasized that he was just kidding about the automatic F), it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s the second professor to have lost something due to Alison’s heroics. We saw a few closeups of his cane, after all. (in which case he’s likely to be an even more important character in the future; he can show Alison how to come to terms with upsetting and infuriating things) M. Alan Thomas II Did he ever say he was kidding about the automatic F? I must have missed / forgotten about that. Page number / link? bta He actually affirmed the opposite at the end of http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-41-5/ . It’s possible he’s trolling her for a little longer, but my guess is that this was intended to be taken at face value by the readers. Etveck And even if she does fail, what does it matter. She’s not in it for a degree or a certificate. She’s studying because she wants to learn and this guy will push her to new points of view. I’m very interested in how Ali will change as she goes through his class. Arkone Axon He never actually said as much. That’s what I mean – he should have told her that he was kidding, since… well, even a regular student complaining about it would be enough to get him into trouble, assigning a failing grade on a whim after the first day in class. He really should have told her that he was having a joke at her expense (unless he was doing it as an actual experiment, wanting to see what her buttons are for future reference). bryan rasmussen see, Allison and Brad are a good match people. deebles Or just good friends. ampg This chapter has some really nice world-building. It’s very easy to default to the idea that biodynamics just sorted themselves into heroes and villains and went on from there, without examining the many, many other bios who have to make their way in the world without those tidy roles laid out for them. Loranna Random note: As Brad and Alison talk, the stars fade out of the background, finding Alison alone against a featureless night sky, and Brad framed by the fading, rosy light of dusk. Just an interesting observation of the play of colors and background details, as Alison and Brad discuss the presence of rage among the dynamorphs – and themselves. Kudos to Molly for including that little detail via omission of a little detail ^_^ *resumes her current trend of quiet lurking* Loranna Captain-Quazi I hadn’t noticed that but it’s a great point, Kudos to the ever talented Molly. Guilherme Carvalho Nicely spotted and commented. 🙂 Arkone Axon I was just commenting to a friend about some blatant hypocrisy by a “SJW” who is doing literally the exact same things she has accused others of doing to her in the past. I VERY much admire Alison here for being honest and not allowing herself to descend into hypocrisy. It’s always been my biggest peeve, when people preach one thing and practice another. David Gillon Really, really dislike people using SJW as a pejorative. The whole construct is based on considering it a negative to fight for people’s rights. Tylikcat I wonder how much we agonize more about Max because we’re reading through this not at graphic novel speed but at three pages a week and let’s dissect every nuance. (That all being said, Max is significantly better written and better spoken than some members of my actual family.*) She met him under charge circumstances, there were sparks, there were also some minor red flags, they had a pretty awesome first date (though again, some minor red flags) and then for the second date he went full on asshole. This is a pretty common dating sequence, especially when someone is new to the experience. (I just hope he quietly fades out, as he clearly has both the ego and the resources to make a pest of himself.) He just seems to trivial when compared to, well, everyone at the dynamorph conference. Which just seems so obvious now that we’re back here. Brad, on the other hand, seems to have the makings of a pretty solid friend – I kind of wonder how much of that Alison allowed before. * including one whose IQ is several deviations above the mean. It’s pretty awful. I’m almost tempted to providing supporting evidence in the form of links to his facebook page. Shjade Given how new side characters who’ve suddenly appeared in prominent ways in a new chapter have tended to vanish by that chapter’s end, I suspect Max’s time is more or less done. Zac Caslar I think Max’s triviality will prove to the root of the problem. He was born to privilege and primacy; there are now Biodynamics and he will likely _never_ match the gifts they were born with -largely because he won’t. He wants Allison as a trophy because he is Lex Luthor 101 minus the profoundly stupid Jolly Ranchers Scene. And the overacting. Holy christ was that bad. But back to Max it’s possible he could buy into something like Templar Industries and get chromed. Or go full Batman and forge himself into a mortal superhuman. Or say steal some of Furnace’s DNA and get into some radical gene therapy. But he won’t. All that isn’t just hardship, it’s profound _risk_. It’s gambling and, knowing a few “people” like him as I have, above all else he wants his supremacy without significant possibility of discomfort because it’s what he’s “owed.” Amusingly the people who most vocally champion the idea of the world owing no one anything are the most ardent proponents of them being the exceptions. Ha ha -I hate humans. Almost beyond words, sometimes. If Global Warming drowns us I’ll try to save some of my last terrified, frenzied moments saluting what we might have been if it weren’t for what we became. We’re a great idea! But as always execution Drumpfs intentions and possibilities. <3 adamsbja I think it’s less evil and more ignorance. I didn’t grow up his level of rich, but I was well off, smart and privileged, and was in a bubble of other people in the same situation so it wasn’t something I ever had to think about. Looking back on it, I said some things and held some views that ranged from insensitive to downright insulting (hardly my ONLY opinions, I had some good ones and have developed more since then), and it was really only in college that I was forced to challenge that worldview. And THAT was only because a good friend of mine got fed up and tore me a new one, and instead of getting mad back at her I decided to listen and think about what she said and what I had said. Eric Johnson Since the ocean levels have only increased less than 2 inches during the last 150 years, I wouldn’t hold my breath on all of humanity being wiped out in a massive flood anytime soon. Christophe2314 I think you’re reading a level of evil in Max that he isn’t capable of. I doubt he cares all that much about proving his own supremacy. I also doubt he believes the world owes him anything; fact is, the world is already giving him pretty much all he wants, and he believes that’s entirely the result of his family’s hard work. He doesn’t see that, once his family started making money, the system was rigged to ensure that they kept making more and more with no significant risk or penalty. spriteless Cue Brad explaining that sometimes everyone needs to express rage, Allison included. bta So how many people here believe Brad may have a thing for her? I’m doubting it. I don’t really expect any of the Guardians to feel like that, they saw Allison at her most abrasive and self-centered age, and then she drifted away from them. If anyone, I would have expected earlier in the comic Hector/Pintsize to be the one to entertain some crush – he was the Guardian closest to Allison, idealized that part of their life where they were all together and spent a lot of time up to recently moping without a lot of possibility for growth. Brad on the other hand had enough projects and presumably a relative amount of social contact, since he was able to set up his organization. And by his own admission, he thought that Allison used to be kind of a jerk and that they were never really close. It’s only recently that they’ve grown closer, and at this point they’re old acquaintances. Even if we assume he doesn’t have self-esteem issues from his appearance, there’s no particular reason for him to keep his hopes up. … On the other end, he’s undoubtedly a good guy. And this pairing might be worth it for the Batman/Superman jokes. Fortooate I’m really really really hoping that Brad is gay. I love him. These statements are related. Happyroach I’ve never got the “unrequited crush” vibe from Brad…or Hector for that matter. the feeling I got was compatriots/fellow idol stars. But can you imagine all the asinine shipping that was and probably still is going on? The gigabits of speculation, assertions, and grotesque fanfic?There are probably Tumblr shipping groups performing actual hits on each other over their relative ships. The first time one of the group admitted they were not in a relationship with each other, they probably had to deal with crazed assassin fans.. adamsbja I don’t think so. People are quick to mentally throw friends into bed with each other, but if we only had close friendships with people we had “things” for, the world would be a lonlier place. I think it’s that Brad is a good listener (in multiple senses of the word given panel 2) and legitimately cares about people. He invited Alison there to learn, so he’s going to find the time to check in. pidgey So, I’m curious. Is providing a forum for expressing rage really something worth doing? Does that help anyone? Don’t get me wrong, I’m willing to accept that it’s a bad thing that some people would be more punished for expressing negative emotions than other people, but the solution of giving such people (or any people, for that matter) a license to let the worst sides of themselves take over for any length of time seems like a pretty mediocre one. I see the argument that you shouldn’t bottle up your emotions. But there’s a big difference between not bottling up your emotions, and acting on your worst impulses. Coming to a convention to shout down presenters or insult other patrons doesn’t seem like acceptable behavior to me no matter how unsatisfying your normal life is. Kyle Kettler Convention attendees aren’t attending merely to express emotion, but instead want to participate in a community forum. The issues facing this community are broad and systematic. Anger in the face of such injustice is entirely reasonable. The community is made up of people who are angry about how they are being treated. To attempt to censor or stifle that anger would only serve to inhibit the sort of community bonds being sought. It is a fundamental shared characteristic of the biodynamorphic community that they are treated unfairly. Insisting that nobody mention their raw-deal would strike me as very counterproductive. David Gillon This! And if you want to understand the issues and formulate a plan, which is expressly Brad’s aim, you need to recognise and explore the anger as a legitimate form of expression. Tylikcat I think it’s a mistake to conflate expressing rage with shouting down presenters or insulting other patrons. There are a lot of ways of expressing rage. Some are more pro-social than others. Fortooate That’s not necessarily what the convention is ~for~, but rather just what it ends up being, you know? Many biodynamics get treated like monsters every day, and have survived past adolescence by not acting angry even when they are; repressed anger problems are baked right into the community and can be expected to flare up when you let these people talk about their feelings without having a threat hanging over their heads. Those are the breaks! ¯_(ツ)_/¯ It’s better than spending that time in constant fear, at any rate. APersonAmI This is a forum where rage gets expressed, but not a forum for expressing rage. The angry guests we have seen were not supported in their rage by the holders of the event, and where either taken aside or asked not to attack other guests. I do not feel that that is a license for angry guests to let their worst sides out, nor do I feel that the angry guests that do come here invalidate the value of the event. David Gillon It’s more complex than that. Everyone is angry, the women’s panel was giving people room to express that. The problem with heckler-boy and Vanessa wasn’t that they were angry, it’s that they were silencing other people. And in fact both were told their anger was legitimate at the same time they were asked not to silence others. chaosvii This comic neither explores nor even brings that idea up. I’m of the opinion that producing such a forum would be ripe for exploiting the pain of others for the sake of personal enrichment by encouraging people to engage in anti-critical thinking and to simply go wherever the mood of the crowd takes them (or is led, for that matter). This convention affords people a freedom from death threats & (further) unhinged social ostracism should they express that rage, then fairly immediately focuses on allowing these people the chance to appreciate that their behavior indicates that their emotions require addressing for a healthier life. It’s a freedom that some express in an impulsive manner and others don’t. But it’s not encouraged, merely allowed so it can later be criticized in a constructive & healthy fashion. Because as you said, bottling it up is bad. Presumably, those depicted expressing rage have bottled it up for too long or in such extreme ways that to be in an environment where they’re no longer forced to do so results in a potent equalizing emotional expression. But note that while they exist, they are still depicted as a minority of convention-goers. David Gillon “their behavior indicates that their emotions require addressing for a healthier life.” Not at all. That’s essentially victim blaming, ‘how dare you be angry that people discriminate against you’ What requires addressing is the discrimination that causes them legitimate anger. I think the issue is you’re only recognising the rage in heckler-boy and Vanessa, but it’s also what Amanda and Carmen and Tina are talking about, And Brad, who explicitly numbers himself among the angry when he says ‘people like me’. pleasechangemymind I think expressing rage in a safe, supportive place is the exact way we *stop* ourselves from acting on our worst inpulses. And sure, coming to a convention with the express purpose of shouting at or insulting people is messed up, but I don’t think that’s what this is. Remember, this isn’t a typical con, but a collective helping people accepting a vital part of their identity. This isn’t people shouting about an episode of tv or a comic they didn’t like: they’re shouting about being legitimately disenfranchised or dehumanized. I think that’s a reasonable thing to be upset about, so long as it is expressed and addressed in a non-violent way. David Gillon Yes. I caused an enormous blow-up in a disability access forum earlier this year by pointing out that I’d seen several non-disabled allies tone-policing disabled forum members for saying they were angry over access issues, and that they should stop it because when people are being discriminated against they have legitimate reasons to be angry. Turned out a lot of the ‘allies’ felt that we weren’t being suitably grateful for their work and if we still couldn’t access cons at the end of the day that shouldn’t be an issue because they were ‘doing something’ (or even ‘not doing anything because we can’t afford it’). And my pointing out the silencing was just dog-in-the-manger ingratitude. Also turned out a lot of the disabled members thought it was an awesome post. It probably did long term damage to the forum, but it revealed a lot of people weren’t actually interested in solving access issues, or understanding them, they just wanted our forelock-tugging gratitude. If people can’t express anger, then you can’t gain a complete understanding of the issue. And if you’re being discriminated against, then isn’t anger the appropriate emotion and not at all negative? You homed in on Allison’s heckler, but everyone in the women’s group was also expressing anger at their situations. ApostateltsopA Sometimes rage is the exactly appropriate emotion. Grayson Towler This chapter has been very interesting so far. I believe both the convention and Alison’s bad date showcase the difficulties she faces with her “stronger together” axiom. In the support group, she found people who are so isolated and wounded that they can barely figure out how to talk to each other, much less find a place they can fit in a larger whole. Many of the people she met have a long way to go before they can join hands and take part in a world-saving mission. On her date, she wound up with someone who’s her ideological opposite in many ways. How do you get a guy like that on board with your benevolent mission? In a way, he’s easier to dehumanize than the radical dynamorphs… isn’t it easy to think of Max as soulless, heartless, etc.? Can someone like that ever be part of a mission like Alison’s? Keep up the good work, guys. Eric Johnson Truth be told, I think that Max, as her ideological opposite, could have been written a bit better. Such as what if Max was poor yet still held to his belief that Freedom was the ultimate good? In such a scenario it would be more difficult for Allison to dismiss his opinion as being born out of a life off privilege.. chaosvii It’s not about what she thinks of his position, it’s the fact that she cannot simply take her axiom for granted, and his position highlights said necessity of self-evaluation. At current, Alison has no real means of convincing Max that collectivism is the way to go because his individualism is entrenched in so many aspects of his life circumstances & social perspectives that he doesn’t see anything he does as an “ought not” nor anything she suggests as an “ought to.” This is another extreme situation like the stones, some people can’t see the solution that’s obvious to her. Further, Max would probably expouse a view that being told that the solution of all black is insulting, as there’s nothing to gain from making a risky choice, and anyone who understands the game knows that. Just because Max hasn’t thought his views out nor presented it in a compelling fashion doesn’t mean that making him wiser would change the essence of the conflict Alison is faced with. She still has an impractical axiom. chaosvii A pot calling the kettle black is not wrong. Merely unable to claim any “above it all” status. Dracula calling a serial killer a murder does not suddenly find himself inaccurate simply because he has done something similar. Tylikcat A note on the pot calling the kettle black – pots were iron. Kettles were shiny copper. So there is at least a claim that a pot calling a kettle black wasn’t originally about hypocrisy but projection – the blackened pot looked into the shiny kettle’s surface and saw their own dark reflection. (I just thought this was really cool. I am not entirely convinced… but it seems fairly plausible.) chaosvii I always thought it was about projection in the sense of “don’t call out a mote in another’s eye to ignore the log in your heart” personally, but that idiomatic background fits as well. chaosvii I always presumed it was about a correct but nonetheless morally compromised (in the religious sense, not the practical sense) projection in the sense of “don’t call out a mote in another’s eye to ignore the log in your own” personally, but that idiomatic background fits just as well. Fortooate he brought an extra chai! best bat boy RobNiner Imagine having enough power to change things, only to find changing things with your power is the worse possible thing you can do. Izo Again… ALISON IS NOT A HYPOCRITE. I love that about this character. See? 🙂 Great comic. ApostateltsopA I’ve been bothered by the phrase about pot’s and kettles. Mainly because I don’t thing, “black” should be a pejorative. Chris Hubbard Its not actually a pejorative. Both pots and kettles back in the day were black due to being constantly burned/seasoned whatever the proper phrase was. So the pot calling the kettle black would be like me trying to call you an internet commentor. Its like, “Yeah? So are you buddy.” Ryan_T_H It’s not. The phrase comes from when both pots and kettles were cast iron/stained with soot. They were literally black. David Gillon Love the art on this page, especially panel 2, there’s a real sense of being caught in the wind. And the casual detail of Brad being able to tell Allison’s upset from several floors away just by the sound of her breathing. Think I could ship Bradison. Giacomo Bandini The Bandini are from Tuscany, Italy. It is not a far fetched idea -lot of Italian immigrants back in the days. Tylikcat Our Bandinis were Spanish, briefly by way of Peru, so perhaps not, then – or only very distantly. (I’ve been poking at the history there a bit, as I’ll be in San Diego this fall for a conference, and am thinking of skiving off and visiting the old family place, which has apparently been made into a restaurant and hotel.) chaosvii Or written with the assumption that only those kinds of stories sell well. Zac Caslar Not your original point either. Danygalw That’s my first comment to you; there is no ‘original’ point. I am very worried about the effects of climate change, I just don’t think that flooding in Miami is going to wipe out humanity. If civilisation does collapse it’ll be slow; no last, terrified, frenzied moments either.