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  • Markus

    Patrick’s face-punching system is pretty flawed in that it assumes that you’re going to be performing your punching in a randomized order. I’m sure with an algorithm that weighted for punch publicity, multipliers in impact of prospective punchee death, ease of mind reading, and a few other nontrivial factors then you could actually get ~50% of the total value of socially change inducing murder within 1-2 years tops.

    Patrick seriously needs to sleep on some computer scientists, because he should totally understand that that problem is super doable in polynomial time.

    • Darkoneko Hellsing

      Kill a person to warn 10, eh ?
      (to which i disagree with the “grossly inneficient” comment Patrick makes on panel 2)

      • D. Schwartz

        To which 2 follow the warning, 6 consider it to varying degrees and take action or not, and 2 don’t care and carry on. So grossly inefficient stands for now.

      • motorfirebox

        Warning ten people would knock the timeframe down from over a thousand years to over a hundred years—again, assuming that you take no breaks and no new people are made. And that none of the existing people change in the interim. Still doesn’t seem very efficient.

        • Darkoneko Hellsing

          But if you broadcast that on TV, you’d warn a lot more (tho there would probably be a backfire of sort)

          • motorfirebox

            I can’t imagine how a ‘former’ supervillain coming on TV and having a top-tier former superhero kill apparently random people could possibly backfire!

          • Darkoneko Hellsing

            Oh, just buying a TV outlet or 2 and having them discover the bodies and announce it the “right way”.

          • Darkoneko Hellsing

            Oh, just buying a TV outlet or 2 and having them make news about the bodies and announce it the “right way”.

            scratch that, just buy all the TV outlet and do heavy propaganda from there, that’d be a good start.

    • Subbak

      Of course, the obvious problem with doing that is that my criteria for continued existence include “does not murder millions of people in cold blood”.

      Not to mention, if you send the message that it’s a moral right to kill bad guys, you end up with more violence, not less. Desecalation is an important thing to have. Even if rape or murder is a horrible thing, I don’t think rapists or murderers (even if situation where there guilt is obvious and they show no remorse) deserve death penalty, as it just perpetuates the endless cycle of violence. They need to be prevented from harming other people while respecting as much as feasible their right to life and the pursuit of happiness (current prison system is definitely not good for that on both the count of protecting others from them (prison rape is a thing) and on the count of not needlessly torturing them, but it’s still better than dying).

      • Shino

        Okay, but how does this perpetuate cycle of violence exactly? If people will become afraid to rape and to murder innocents, then less people will murder and rape – leading to LESS victims of vigilante justice. While probably not solving these problems completely, it can probably work in decreasing the amounts of rapes and murders.

        • Mechwarrior

          Fear of punishment has been shown by numerous studies to be ineffective as a means of deterring crime. Educating people and removing harmful environmental factors* are much more effective as long term solutions.

          *For example, lead, which causes increased aggression in people exposed to low levels of it for long periods of time- there was a remarkable drop in violent crime rates after lead was removed from gasoline.

          • Rod

            I don’t buy that. Frankly, it seems that such studies lump victimless crimes in with actual, real harmful crimes. When that’s done, then of course fear of punishment might not deter crime. For plenty of people, telling them they can’t do something they feel is their right (like smoking a plant) might actually spur them on to it.

            But I suspect that when those crimes are removed from the equation… when clearly legitimate crimes are the only things examined, such as murder, theft, rape (real rape, not that “statutory rape” BS…) that you’d find that fear of punishment *FOR SOMETHING ONE KNOWS TO BE WRONG* is actually quite a disincentive.

          • Mechwarrior

            Nope, it’s actually been studied multiple ways using different crimes. The risk of future punishment just isn’t a strong motivator against committing a crime right now for a lot of people. They either don’t bother considering it, or they don’t think that they’ll end up getting caught.

            And when punishments become too severe, it can actually make crime worse. You may have heard the phrase “in for a penny, in for a pound?” That came from a period in England’s history when sentences for criminal convictions were especially harsh, which actually led to criminals committing further crimes- if you were going risk getting hanged for theft, you might as well steal as much as you could since you’d get the same sentence for stealing a single fork as the whole silver set. If mugging and murdering both carry the death penalty, there’s little incentive not to kill those you rob.

            That’s the issue.

          • Rod

            Then I still don’t buy it. When a study tries to tell me I can fly through sheer willpower, I’ll likewise dismiss that, too.

            Yes, giving the death penalty for stealing candy from a baby obviously crossed the line of diminishing returns. But it’s absurd for anyone to believe that, given absolutely no consequences for their actions, people wouldn’t just give into their every whim.

            There are plenty of things that most people don’t do for the simple fact that there will be negative repercussions for doing so (in fact, that pretty much details how people come to learn impulse control.)

          • Vorpal

            “Fear of punishment has been shown by numerous studies to be ineffective as a means of deterring crime.”

            Not disagreeing, but that’s fear of punishment – aka there’s only a chance of punishment. In a scenario where there was a 100% chance of being punished because people with magic powers read your mind and know exactly what crimes you did, the data would likely be very different.

          • Mechwarrior

            Not really. People are remarkably good at convincing themselves that they’re special and will somehow beat the odds.

            It’s why people buy lottery tickets.

        • belatedEpiphany

          What you are describing is the plot of DeathNote…

        • fyrehair

          Adding to Mechwarrior’s point, look around the world at the more authoritarian regimes*. It’s not hard to see that permitting institutionalized murder and vigilanteism normalizes violence, to the point where people think it’s a reasonable response to relatively minor infractions.

          This is how you get citizen-fueled atrocities like lynch mobs (that brown-skinned man whistled at a girl! That lady went outside without a chaperone!) and domestic violence (you burned dinner! Now I have to hit you!) becoming the norm, rather than rare and shocking exceptions.

          Fear is not a useful motivator. Ethics and logic are much better guides.

          *Not that you’ll have to travel far, but examples at home make people uncomfortable. For some reason.

        • So Kira from Death Note was right?

          • Shino

            Well, we did see New York in one episode, with Twin Towers still standing after 9/11/2001 date, implying that Kira’s actions have prevented World Trade Center attacks (after all, all HE needed to off Bin Laden would be a photo and a name).
            Speaking of which, I wonder if there are biodynamics that can kill people over long distance (perhaps they were the ones of the ‘dangerous to the status quo’ ones that were killed early on?)

    • zarawesome

      She has two hands and two feet! She could get four times as much punching going on!

  • Verdant_Samuel

    Just idle talk, ya know. Not like anyone’s been secretly running some kind of organization for that purpose. That’d just be villainous.

  • Ryan

    Last panel: Most genuinely cheerful and optimistic villain ever.

  • Stephanie Gertsch

    The last two panels…. Very, very, scary. He looks so reasonable too. It’s good storytelling to have a character say something that should be entirely corny but in such a way at such a moment you realize they’re totally sincere.

  • Subbak

    “World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer “world optimisation””. HJPEV

    • Enepttastic

      Liked the quote, googled the acronym and now I’m reading. I’d bemoan productivity but hell, it’s my evening now anyways….

    • Oakreef

      Except he never actually had a single idea for how to go about optimising the world and the climax of the story and the reader’s “final exam” was just how to kill a bunch of people really quickly with magic. God that story didn’t pay off at all on any of the ideas it seemed to be going for at the start.

      • Ryan .

        It’s really hard writing an ending to great beginning, and vice-versa.

  • fairportfan

    “Peace through superior firepower. Ain’t nothin’ more peaceful than a dead troublemaker.”

  • al_tech

    I like Patrick! I do agree with him too.

    Does that make me wrongheaded?

    • Sabriel

      I’ve been holding a candle for Patrick, but I think he’s being insufferable. :-/

    • Oren Leifer

      Yeah, but here I think he’s thinking too big actually. You don’t need to take over the whole world, just the right institutions. Buy your way into controlling a few major colleges, show that crimes go to the police and get all the rapists and other people committing crimes arrested, and push the “Crime-free campus Initiative”. And/or Patrick can just offer colleges to pay as much money as they would have gotten tuition for students that are expelled for criminal activity: removing financial incentives for college to cover up crime. Money gives you a lot of weight to throw around.

  • Those last two panels are just so…cheerfully chilling.

  • Henry Cannon

    I think I like the first of his alternatives best.

  • TheGonzoMD .

    “You can’t murder your way to a better world.”

    But you can have a blast trying, that’s all that matters in the end, right? That’s what life is about!

    • evillordzog

      It depends entirely on who you murder

  • Duke Araja

    Likewise, the person who meets the criteria at 19 could become a rapist at 25. People are the problem.

    • Oren Leifer

      The book “Bad Monkeys” by Matt Ruff comes to mind. It’s about an organization that targets and kills potential serial killers. At one point the main character is asked to choose between killing an older serial killer who has already killed 10 people but will be caught soon, or a young man who has already killed one victim and is starting a trend.

      It’s not what someone has already done, it’s if they’re in a certain pattern of behavior, and how to stop/check that pattern.

  • MrSing

    For such a smart guy Patrick sure knows a whole lot about nothing.
    That probably explains his time travel plans though.

  • anongal

    Overthrow capitalism!!! Long live the fourth!!!

  • evillordzog

    Depends entirely on your definition of villain. As he’s explained himself, villains are the people who want to change the world,ergo of course he’s never stopped being a villain.

    • Axel_Celosar

      Yeah, but that’s HIS definition of a villain. That doesn’t mean he’s right.

      • evillordzog

        In the context of the genre I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong

        • Axel_Celosar

          What I mean is, it’s like the Aesop of The Wolf And The Lamb: “A Tyrant needs little excuse to justify his tyranny.”

  • Ryan
    • KatherineMW

      Yes. Historically speaking, there have been a few efficient dictatorships (mainly in eastern Asia), and a whole passel of highly inefficient and ineffective ones. The statistical evidence is mixed, but it doesn’t indicate that dictatorships as a whole are more efficient.

      And here’s a citation supporting that point: http://www.development.wne.uw.edu.pl/uploads/Courses/dw_22_p1_1.pdf

      Despite a sizeable theoretical and empirical literature, no firm conclusions have been drawn regarding the impact of political democracy on economic growth. This article challenges the consensus of an inconclusive relationship through a quantitative assessment of the democracy-growth literature. It applies meta-regression analysis to the population of 483 estimates derived from 84 studies on democracy and growth…Taking all the available published evidence together, it
      concludes that democracy does not have a direct impact on economic growth. However, democracy has robust, significant, and positive indirect effects through higher human capital, lower inflation, lower political instability, and higher levels of
      economic freedom. Democracies may also be associated with larger governments and less free international trade. There also appear to be country- and region-specific democracy-growth effects. Overall, democracy’s net effect on the economy does not seem to be detrimental.

      • Ryan

        Thank you for providing a citation for my claim. You are the true hero of this thread.

  • Jon

    You’ll notice none of this is an explanation of why he won’t help. It’s another distraction.

  • S.I. Rosenbaum

    Third panel: He’s thought about this option. He’s done the math.

    • Well, no, it’s just a variation on the “marching chinamen” conundrum.

  • S.I. Rosenbaum

    Patrick is what happens when you underline the “chaotic” in “chaotic good” about a thousand times

    • Shino

      More like “chaotic neutral”, really.

      • S.I. Rosenbaum

        No – a neutral either looks out for himself, and/or just does things for shits and giggles. Patrick spends an awful lot of time trying to figure out the “right” thing to do, he just takes a monstrously utilitarian view of what’s “right.”

        • Classtoise

          Nah, Patrick is what happens when Neutral Evil makes the jump to Chaotic Good.

          The tendencies to solve problems in the most efficient (if perhaps least humane) way slowly fade into the tendency to solve problems in the most “righteous” (if perhaps least LEGAL) way.

          Although time traveling to enforce order takes a running leap BACK to Lawful Evil. “You will all obey me for your own good” is nowhere near the Good spectrum.

        • Elaine Lee


  • Ryan

    No, not heartbreaking, Alison. He said head-breaking. Weren’t you listening?

    • Classtoise

      Well I imagine when you’re that strong, the force of a face-punch will inevitably cause a few hearts to break, too.

  • KatherineMW

    As of this strip, I’m liking both Feral and Moonshadow a lot more than I do Allison or Patrick.

    You can’t make the world perfect. It’s an impossible goal, because people aren’t perfect. So long as humanity remains imperfect, a perfect world is incompatible with free will. But you can make the world better (the starfish parable), even if we dispute whether vigilante murder is an acceptable way of trying to do that.

    Patrick’s a billionaire. If he threw his money into funding people to research a cure for malaria, or tuberculosis, or HIV/AIDS, or into making antiretrovirals available to everyone, achieving any one of those things would save a million lives a year. (Given what he said in the previous strip about how his telepathy works, reading the minds of all the researchers on any of those diseases might well enable him to come up with cures for multiple diseases himself.) Would it fix everything wrong with the world for all time? No. But it would do a lot more good than endless philosophical wankery or mad schemes.

    • Shino

      Allison’s a liberal, and Patrick’s a perfectionist, that’s the thing.
      Also Patrick probably thinks that he can accomplish less that the original, super-powerful biodynamics capable of solving world’s problems that were murdered in the early years (let’s call them “Tier Zero biodynamics”), so he is dabbling in taking over the world and time-travel thinking of a way to change the world big-time. He doesn’t WANT to do a little at the time, he wants to make one big change that will change everything – and that’s probably why he will fail.

      • Zac Caslar

        Feel free to quantify your point behind the observation “Allison’s a liberal.”

        • Classtoise

          “She holds beliefs that are generally liberal in nature and supports ideals and thoughts generally considered ‘liberal’? 😛

          • Zac Caslar

            Ah, nevermind.
            My confusion about the context.
            Mea culpa.

      • allium

        That doesn’t bode well…after all, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

    • Classtoise

      Feral I can see, but Moonshadow? Her solution to a problem is “kill it”. This does not make the world a better place, as all statistics of crime vs capitol punishment have proven.

      Also, when your powerset is superstrength and invulnerability, your options on making the world a better place are limited.
      Sure, Allison can go to school for architecture or become a construction worker and build labs single handedly doing work that no one person could do. Or she can apprehend criminals. Or she can just do literally nothing because she’s decided that stopping murderers doesn’t mean anything because Malaria will kill more people than she could ever save. Just like in the real world, not everyone can be a doctor. Some of us have to help in other ways.

      • KatherineMW

        My issue with Allison is precisely that she doesn’t seem to like any solution that fails to solve everything. You’re right that her abilities are less suited to solving the big problems of the world than Patrick’s wealth and telepathically-enhanced intelligence are. I don’t blame her at all for focusing on going to university at the moment: that’s a wise thing to do, given that her retirement from superheroism was prompted in part by being asked if she would get involved in international wars. She needs some education and thought and knowledge of the world in order to have responses to those kinds of requests, though she already understands intuitively that a superpowered war would be disastrous. What’s aggravating is that she seems to be tearing down everyone else’s attempts at doing things to improve the world because they’re not large-scale enough. (Granted, she also has other reasons – she’s obviously and understandably horrified at the amount of pain Feral is putting herself through; she doesn’t believe killing criminals is acceptable; and she feels that Pintsize’s superhero squad would be more detrimental than beneficial now that all the major supervillains are dealt with. But I think part of the reason she’s getting so much pushback from the people she talks to is that she’s tearing down other people’s solutions without offering anything of her own. What Feral is doing to herself is horrific, but she’s saving hundreds if not thousands of lives; the fact that it’s not millions of lives doesn’t make it the ‘wrong’ answer. There’s definite arguments for why Moonshadow’s actions are wrong, but “they don’t end all rape permanently” isn’t one of them.)

        I’m likely being too hard on her with that, since she does volunteer with the fire department, which shows she’s still wanting to do good things to help individuals even if they don’t change the world. I just find the attitude expressed in her and Patrick’s conversation here – that any action that fails to fix everything wrong with the world is pointless – aggravating and wrongheaded.

    • fyrehair

      Thank you for mentioning the starfish parable. It cuts through so much BS.

    • Foxhound

      Yeah, Feral’s plan is totally effective. There’s a long version of this but basically, taking the numbers from the comic and all the lowballs particularly, she’d fill out every single transplant American transplant from 2008 except kidneys and joint kidney/pancrease needs. (http://www.infoplease.com/science/health/us-transplants-year-1988-2007.html) Moonshadow suffers more severely from the, “There is a reaction to the application of force”. Furnace is classic, but even then men (and women) would apply significantly more silencing pressure if an accusation resulted in a murder. Also, as the opening sequence of this issue shows, not all rape survivors are enthused with the idea of murdering their rapists.

      But Feral’s plan has got gumption, and Alison hasn’t achieved anything since she got Patrick to retire by accident. Also, for the record, I think Patrick is reminiscing on why he tried to take over the world, not projecting forward.

  • Shino

    But the point is not the idea that you will single-handedly kill every bad person, the point is that it’s essentially more extreme way of Batman’s tactics: You make people AFRAID of doing evil, since you make people ask themselves : “If I will fuck that girl when she’s passed out, what if *I* will be the next victim of Invisible Slasher?”
    It’s weird that a mind-reader would forget to put human psychology into equation.

  • I am heartened by the fact that Patrick is working on the problem of rape culture in some manner. That shows he has a “good” alignment to use a phrase from one of the previous commenters. He has a basic impulse to improve the world, it was just the initial method he used that got him the “bad guy” label.

    • Ryan

      I still like the theory someone else posted a while ago that Patrick’s original antics as Menace were designed to get him off the kill list of the shadowy conspiracy.

    • Far as I can tell, he’s lawful-evil … doesn’t seem to care about morality much, nor the small scale consequences of his actions, and is quite regimented in his thought processes.

  • Shino

    Rape doesn’t carry capital punishment, actually. And rape prosecution is notoriously inefficient and typically detrimental to well-being of the victim.

  • Classtoise

    He’s totally being manipulative. He’s trying his best do dissuade her from thinking on any subject he does not like her thoughts straying to.

    So far he’s derailed her about the people in his office with time travel, and then time travel with talk of Moonshadow, and now Moonshadow with talk of how violence won’t solve matters.

    He keeps leaping to a new topic.

  • Classtoise

    I think the solution was more to separate the desire for power from gender. So men are not driven to a position of power, and thus do not see themselves as “over” women.

    It completely ignores that while yes, a lot of rape is about power, that doesn’t stop teachers who prey on their students (male or female) and many other types (one example being a woman deriding a man who decides he doesn’t want to have sex; rape through coercion)

    Not only that, assuming that rape is linked to gender identity and a belief that genders are separate is also fallacious. Just because no one identifies as man or woman or otherwise does not mean that rape mysteriously ends.

    • Oren Leifer

      Can I just say that this comic is the best resource for my “Issues of Race/Class/Gender” class ever? These conversations are so interesting and provide so much food for thought.

  • ampg

    But the really important question here is…Where did Alison’s tights go?

    • Arthur Frayn

      It’s true! I looked at the history of this sequence. Her tights come and go. Sometimes her legs are black and sometimes the same color as the rest of her skin. Molly, wake up!

      • ampg

        Looks like she changed them back. Thanks, Molly!

  • S.S

    Guys, I made a Wiki for Strong Female Protagonist, it’s a work in progress and I could use some help if anyone is interested. It’s here: http://strongfemaleprotagonist.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Female_Protagonist_Wikia

  • Jayden Crowe

    I like the way that Patrick thinks. Destroy capitalism, change the way the world sees gender, take over the world (of course!).

  • The worst atrocities of the 20th century have come about due to cultures attempting to force their ideologies upon others that didn’t agree. Communism, fascism, and now capitalism, each getting their turn and millions dying in their wakes … the best ideas are the ones people can agree on without coercion.

    • Darkoneko Hellsing

      Democraty is the majority forcing its views on the minority.

      • MrSing

        Any other form of goverment is a minority forcing its views on a majority.

        • Darkoneko Hellsing

          That or everybody agrees and we’re all mindless clones.

    • Oren Leifer

      The problem with Communism is that attempting to push Communism is like hearing the weatherman talk about an earthquake and so setting explosives. The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels is a prediction, not a plan.

      • The inherent problem with communism is that we live in a world with limited resources, and that people get greedy over scarcity. The real world problem with communism is that those that led to use communism as their ideology did so in such an imperfect manner that it led to the deaths of millions of their peoples, but this is always true when leaders force an ideology upon their people. https://i.imgur.com/eyUnc.jpg

  • Adrienne Herbst

    Wow, either he’s not very bright or he’s massively condescending to Alison, as well as the manipulative redirecting other commenters have pointed out. . Girl, don’t date him.

  • bta

    I can’t help but notice that Patrick has gotten the one person who could stop his plans without too much problems emotionally invested in him.

    This will not end well.

  • Ok, I’m actually scared about how genuinely happy he seems to be.

  • MrSing

    “What’s the penalty for doing something Patrick doesn’t agree with?”
    “What’s the penalty for rebelling against Patrick?”
    “Well then…”

  • Guilherme Carvalho

    Glad I’m not the only one who thought of him right away. 🙂

  • Elaine Lee

    I have a similar solution to Patrick’s, but it requires me to be Queen of the Universe so that I could stop time (solving Patrick’s 1000 year problem) and personally interview everyone in the world. I would then zap all of the most aggressive men and all of the most passive women into an alternate universe. We’d be left with a population of men and women who had much more in common than the current population. That would go a long way to solving MANY problems.

  • Balthazar

    Very good Patrick! Rationalized villainy is the best kind of villainy.

  • Jun X

    the problem with people like Alexander the great and Ozymandias is that no matter how brilliant they might have been, they never planned far enough for their own deaths. The lack of a successor just brought their empires to immediate chaos and instability. The moment Patrick dies, the possibility that any good he might do will get instantly undone is kind of high.

    • Also, there are always people who are unhappy. What’s he going to do, kill/imprison/brainwash everyone that disagrees with him? That really sounds like a better world than the one we’ve got…

  • masterofbones

    “And now that we are done talking about trifling matters, lets go back to figuring out how to save the world from bigger problems. Like people who kill heroes that could end world hunger.”

  • Rufus Saltus

    Not very actionable? Alison clearly needs to read up on Marxist theories of revolutionary praxis. The only problem for her is that her powers can do nothing to forward the development of proletarian class consciousness that will bring about the revolution. Powerful as she and Patrick are, they are nothing compared to the materialist dialectic that drives history!

    • I think her point was that people are rather attached to concepts like gender and capitalism and living outside of tubes. It would be hard to get support for them.

  • Oren Leifer

    The problem with that logic is that Ozymandias was just another name for Ramesses II, who is actually well-known by anyone who has studied Egyptian history for more than five minutes. It’s like how people say “Good fences make good neighbors” because it’s from a Robert Frost poem, when the point of the poem is that the narrator has a neighbor who says that phrase without it making any sense.

    Although a point to build on what you are saying is that Patrick is hoping that Templar Industries’ work is remembered in a way that Menace and Mega-Girl will not be.

    • Markus

      Except that Ozymandias isn’t about whether or not people remember Ramesses, it’s about on what terms they do. We don’t look at a statue of Ramesses II and think “Man, Ramesses was incredibly powerful and managed to both embed himself in the annals of history through this immortalizing statue and establish Egypt in a position to dominate the entire globe in the coming centuries, thus immortalizing himself further. I’m really glad I’m lucky enough to read ancient Egyptian, like any self respecting citizen of wealth and class.”

      You’re a lot more likely to think “Man, this guy with the eye makeup that loves looking off to stage right sure liked making statues. I wonder who he was. Whatever, I’ll just wiki that shit when I get home.”

      We remember Ozymandias on our terms, with our tools, thanks to our strength. If we didn’t have all that we have, his monument to immortality would be nothing more than ruins gathering dust.

  • fairportfan

    No, there just need to be more of us than there are of them.

    We have the majority, that’s democracy.

    {Can you perceive how far my tongue is in my cheek?}

  • Kid Chaos

    “What do you want to do tonight, Brain?”
    “The same thing we do every night, Pinky; try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!” 🙂

  • Kid Chaos

    The problem is, you’re not starting (and ending) with Patrick. 🙂

  • motorfirebox

    Technically it’s on my “how to avoid needing a bucket list” list.

  • motorfirebox

    Look, weather manipulation just isn’t one of his anomalies!

  • Darkoneko Hellsing

    Well seeing China is capicalism… no.

  • AdamBombTV

    Wait… thats the end of the archive? I’ve caught up? no… No…NO!

  • Cake

    “…still wouldn’t be done in a thousand years.”

    If you went after the top 1% you’d be done in 10 years! That seems achievable to me.

  • Markus

    I choose to believe this is a portmanteau of by one get one -cide.

  • Matthew Dowd

    if he has some sort of guarantee that his clone will be biodynamic in the same way he is, he can create the perfect dynastic empire. This being said, it is likely NOT a good thing to do so.